Would you trade Adam Jones even up for these CF's?

[atomic]

3 hours ago, Redskins Rick said:

I hate to disagree, but a contending, needs more production than what Jones can provide at the COF, IMO.

But, hell, Ive been wrong many times before.

 

Other than the year we had Cruz when did we have more production from left field than Adam Jones has provided this year?  

[foxfield]

Start Rant

I don't mean to offend.  But some of this is nonsense.  The team did nothing wrong to Adam here.  Adam did nothing to hurt the team here.  Adam made a calculated move that was in his best interest...as he should have.  It's not like the Orioles would have gotten anything other than cleared space for him.  I think it will turn out that the calculation did not help.  Someone asked above if there is any chance Adam gets a QO.  I honestly don't think he will get 18 on a 2 year deal.  But I hope I am wrong.

I really don't see cutting up the guy here at all.  And for some that want to turn it around on the team, I am fine with what the Orioles have done too.  

The window closing catches lots of fingers.  If the window is slammed, windows break, if you are not careful with the pieces you can get cut.  That is what is happening here.  But many here need to stop looking for shards to use against Adam or the Orioles.

Frank Robinson, Eddie Murray, Adam Jones.  As African American baseball players they mean something outside of the game.  Adam has made more money and donated freely to the community in Baltimore.  I still hope that once he tests the market, if he cannot get what he wants that his price could be more in line here.  Of course he doesn't really seem to fit.  But I will hate to see him go.  

I do not like seeing the Orioles beaten up here for trying to move him or how they handled it.  They have done plenty to complain about but this shouldn't be on the list.  More importantly I don't like seeing Adam Jones painted as selfish or self serving, as if his actions were somehow different than any rich athlete today could not be so painted.  I don't always agree with Adam Jones, but I do respect him and I admire what he does off the field even though it has not one damn thing to do with him being an Oriole.  And I respect what he means to baseball fans, and as a former little league coach, how much guys like Adam mean to the African American community.  

I don't know, and I don't really mean to step on any toes as everyone is entitled to their own opinion. And I'm just a dumb white redneck farmer. But if we want to throw rocks at things concerning the Orioles, I can come up with a pretty darn long list before I get to either Adam Jones exercising his 10X5 rights or the Orioles handling of same.

End Rant

[TGO]

I ain't mad at him.

[theocean]

4 hours ago, Tony-OH said:

No, not at all. It's selfish when the player literally states he invoked the clause because he was concerned how he would look entering free agency as a part-time RFer. 

Definition of selfish: A person, action or motiff lacking consideration for others; concerned chiefly with one's own personal profit or pleasure.

This has nothing to do with him invoking his 10/5 right, which he had every right to do, but for the exact reason he stated.

I give Jones all the credit in the world for being bluntly honest. He did for his own selfish reasons and had the right to do it under the collective bargaining agreement. 

You have a skewed perception of the word "selfish." A guy looking out for his own career and family isn't being selfish. A guy who gives so much time and money to his community isn't selfish. 

By your definition - Plus Membership on this site is selfish. 

Quite honestly, you clearly have some issue with Jones. In another thread you were questioning whether Philadelphia was far enough away to consider being away from one's family. In this thread you are calling him selfish because he used his 10-5 rights that he earned. The Orioles are a corporation. He doesn't owe them anything. He's lived up to the contract he signed and done everything right while here. Let him be.

[Tony-OH]

4 hours ago, theocean said:

You have a skewed perception of the word "selfish." A guy looking out for his own career and family isn't being selfish. A guy who gives so much time and money to his community isn't selfish. 

By your definition - Plus Membership on this site is selfish. 

Quite honestly, you clearly have some issue with Jones. In another thread you were questioning whether Philadelphia was far enough away to consider being away from one's family. In this thread you are calling him selfish because he used his 10-5 rights that he earned. The Orioles are a corporation. He doesn't owe them anything. He's lived up to the contract he signed and done everything right while here. Let him be.

Lol. that's not my definition buddy, that's the dictionary definition. Take up your issues with them. I clearly have said multiple times that I have zero issues with Jones evoking his 10/5. You are not going to accept that because you can't see past your fandom. 

I get it. Some fans are unable to look at things objectively. You are not the first or the last that will think this way about a player. 

[Tony-OH]

5 hours ago, foxfield said:

Start Rant

I don't mean to offend.  But some of this is nonsense.  The team did nothing wrong to Adam here.  Adam did nothing to hurt the team here.  Adam made a calculated move that was in his best interest...as he should have.  It's not like the Orioles would have gotten anything other than cleared space for him.  I think it will turn out that the calculation did not help.  Someone asked above if there is any chance Adam gets a QO.  I honestly don't think he will get 18 on a 2 year deal.  But I hope I am wrong.

I really don't see cutting up the guy here at all.  And for some that want to turn it around on the team, I am fine with what the Orioles have done too.  

The window closing catches lots of fingers.  If the window is slammed, windows break, if you are not careful with the pieces you can get cut.  That is what is happening here.  But many here need to stop looking for shards to use against Adam or the Orioles.

Frank Robinson, Eddie Murray, Adam Jones.  As African American baseball players they mean something outside of the game.  Adam has made more money and donated freely to the community in Baltimore.  I still hope that once he tests the market, if he cannot get what he wants that his price could be more in line here.  Of course he doesn't really seem to fit.  But I will hate to see him go.  

I do not like seeing the Orioles beaten up here for trying to move him or how they handled it.  They have done plenty to complain about but this shouldn't be on the list.  More importantly I don't like seeing Adam Jones painted as selfish or self serving, as if his actions were somehow different than any rich athlete today could not be so painted.  I don't always agree with Adam Jones, but I do respect him and I admire what he does off the field even though it has not one damn thing to do with him being an Oriole.  And I respect what he means to baseball fans, and as a former little league coach, how much guys like Adam mean to the African American community.  

I don't know, and I don't really mean to step on any toes as everyone is entitled to their own opinion. And I'm just a dumb white redneck farmer. But if we want to throw rocks at things concerning the Orioles, I can come up with a pretty darn long list before I get to either Adam Jones exercising his 10X5 rights or the Orioles handling of same.

End Rant

You were doing awesome, then you went off the rails here and that's disappointing because I respect your opinion. No one has said that Adam Jones did something wrong, but by the very definition of the word selfish, and by his own words, he choose to invoke his 10/5 clause because he thought being a part-time RFer would hurt him in free agency. He wasn't thinking about the Orioles, the Phillies, the young players who would get opportunities if he left, no one but himself. That by the very definition is selfish. I'm not saying he didn't earn that right, but let's not make this out to be anything other than a longtime Orioles going out on his terms and doing what's best for himself.

Although I think his decision was ill-informed and foolish, he had every right to to that contractually and I have zero issues with him doing what he thinks was best for him.  I'm not saying Jones is a selfish person overall, just that this decision was selfish, in that he solely looked out for his own financial gain, which he had every right to do.

I know fans have their opinions of players and some put them on these pedestals, but let's be clear here, Jones was looking out solely for himself, and unfortunately, it doesn't look like it was the best decision because now he's a part-time RFer on the worse team in baseball.

Contrary to some misguided opinions, I wish Jones nothing but the best. He was a good Oriole, he helped them win a lot of games over his career, but he was poor performer in post season play, and now he's leaving as a part-time guy on the worse Orioles team in history.

[Tx Oriole]

6 hours ago, Camden_yardbird said:

I'm so disappointed in so many posts in this thread, the character assassination is unreal.  Why can't we just disagree with what he did and respect his decision and respect what he has done for this organization?

Good post. It doesn't bother me what he did. 

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, Papeete said:

When a majority of Orioles fans on this board are trashing AJ, it becomes even more apparent that AJ made an excellent decision to veto the trade to a team that is definitely not going to the World Series. The voices that I hear are the same folks who can't imagine Buck not returning as the Manager next year after sucking up the team his entire time in Baltimore. The same people who are silent about the production from Davis sucking up salary.

Since the Losing Orioles are not willing to pay Black and Brown Players, AJ will get a good contract with a Real Major-league Team!

You are accusing the team of using race as a determining factor in who to sign?

Actual proof please.

[24fps]

1 hour ago, Tony-OH said:

You were doing awesome, then you went off the rails here and that's disappointing because I respect your opinion. No one has said that Adam Jones did something wrong, but by the very definition of the word selfish, and by his own words, he choose to invoke his 10/5 clause because he thought being a part-time RFer would hurt him in free agency. He wasn't thinking about the Orioles, the Phillies, the young players who would get opportunities if he left, no one but himself. That by the very definition is selfish. I'm not saying he didn't earn that right, but let's not make this out to be anything other than a longtime Orioles going out on his terms and doing what's best for himself.

Although I think his decision was ill-informed and foolish, he had every right to to that contractually and I have zero issues with him doing what he thinks was best for him.  I'm not saying Jones is a selfish person overall, just that this decision was selfish, in that he solely looked out for his own financial gain, which he had every right to do.

I know fans have their opinions of players and some put them on these pedestals, but let's be clear here, Jones was looking out solely for himself, and unfortunately, it doesn't look like it was the best decision because now he's a part-time RFer on the worse team in baseball.

Contrary to some misguided opinions, I wish Jones nothing but the best. He was a good Oriole, he helped them win a lot of games over his career, but he was poor performer in post season play, and now he's leaving as a part-time guy on the worse Orioles team in history.

He's leaving on his own terms as a very temporary part-time guy on the worst Orioles team in history.  When, in the future, people think of Adam Jones as an Oriole they won't think of August-September, 2018.  So what if he decided to pass on the opportunity to play in Philadelphia for two months?  Seriously, so what?  

[foxfield]

1 hour ago, Tony-OH said:

You were doing awesome, then you went off the rails here and that's disappointing because I respect your opinion. No one has said that Adam Jones did something wrong, but by the very definition of the word selfish, and by his own words, he choose to invoke his 10/5 clause because he thought being a part-time RFer would hurt him in free agency. He wasn't thinking about the Orioles, the Phillies, the young players who would get opportunities if he left, no one but himself. That by the very definition is selfish. I'm not saying he didn't earn that right, but let's not make this out to be anything other than a longtime Orioles going out on his terms and doing what's best for himself.

Although I think his decision was ill-informed and foolish, he had every right to to that contractually and I have zero issues with him doing what he thinks was best for him.  I'm not saying Jones is a selfish person overall, just that this decision was selfish, in that he solely looked out for his own financial gain, which he had every right to do.

I know fans have their opinions of players and some put them on these pedestals, but let's be clear here, Jones was looking out solely for himself, and unfortunately, it doesn't look like it was the best decision because now he's a part-time RFer on the worse team in baseball.

Contrary to some misguided opinions, I wish Jones nothing but the best. He was a good Oriole, he helped them win a lot of games over his career, but he was poor performer in post season play, and now he's leaving as a part-time guy on the worse Orioles team in history.

Tony, thanks for the critique and I certainly respect your opinion, but I'm still not sure we are that far apart.  Exercising 10/5 is a benefit afforded the player.  Can there even be an exercising of 10/5 that is not selfish?  I don't think so.  And I don't agree that his decision was foolish.  It was a gamble as I said, and I don't think it changes the math for his FA prospects.  Exercising 10/5 was a gamble that he would still be seen as a starting OF for a competing team.  Going to Philly and platooning would have been a risk too.  Of course if he performed he could have helped his value.  He took a conservative position and will still be seen as a platoon type player if he wants to be on a WS contending team.  And yes of course the choice was self serving but that is what the right is for.  No?

If the Orioles missed out on something because Adam said no, I would be perhaps of the same viewpoint as you.  But his decision did nothing negative to the Os.  And my point is simply that I don't see where this warrants any real negative energy towards AJ.  Or the Baltimore Orioles.

[Tony-OH]

10 minutes ago, foxfield said:

Tony, thanks for the critique and I certainly respect your opinion, but I'm still not sure we are that far apart.  Exercising 10/5 is a benefit afforded the player.  Can there even be an exercising of 10/5 that is not selfish?  I don't think so.  And I don't agree that his decision was foolish.  It was a gamble as I said, and I don't think it changes the math for his FA prospects.  Exercising 10/5 was a gamble that he would still be seen as a starting OF for a competing team.  Going to Philly and platooning would have been a risk too.  Of course if he performed he could have helped his value.  He took a conservative position and will still be seen as a platoon type player if he wants to be on a WS contending team.  And yes of course the choice was self serving but that is what the right is for.  No?

If the Orioles missed out on something because Adam said no, I would be perhaps of the same viewpoint as you.  But his decision did nothing negative to the Os.  And my point is simply that I don't see where this warrants any real negative energy towards AJ.  Or the Baltimore Orioles.

Well the Orioles did delay Mullins because Jones was still here and I'd rather DJ Stewart get time in RF to see how he does rather than Jones, but I agree, no one really lost out overall.

Look, I know it seems like I'm upset over Jones staying, I'm not. I've said multiple times that the Orioles weren't going to get anything of value from a Jones trade, and I wasn't concerned when he vetoed the trade. It was only when the fans started to say that Jones didn't want to move because he didn't want to be away from his family for two months or because of his charity did I start to call BS.

Now, he comes out and literally admits it was all for his own purposes but some people still won't call it what it is, and that was selfish. I literally looked up the word yet people want to try and slam me for being against Jones, which I'm not.

 

 

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, Papeete said:

You have to be either Dumb as Dirt or Blind as Stevie Wonder . . . I referenced "who they pay", not "who they sign". If you are seeking proof, look at their roster for the last 5 years. The Orioles thought Davis would out-produce Cruz! Low-balled Manny earlier. Did the Orioles low-ball Trumbo!  A history of not investing in International Players, until now!

Now, the proof is on you!

Albert Bell

Ubaldo Jimenez

Miguel Tejada

All substantial contracts in their day that went to players of color.

Why didn't they trade Givens?  Why extend Jones?  Why pursue Vlad?

[Tony-OH]

10 minutes ago, Papeete said:

You have to be either Dumb as Dirt or Blind as Stevie Wonder . . . I referenced "who they pay", not "who they sign". If you are seeking proof, look at their roster for the last 5 years. The Orioles thought Davis would out-produce Cruz! Low-balled Manny earlier. Did the Orioles low-ball Trumbo!  A history of not investing in International Players, until now!

Now, the proof is on you!

This is not how we talk to others around here. Please refrain from attacking other posters if you disagree with them.

[Tony-OH]

35 minutes ago, Papeete said:

When a majority of Orioles fans on this board are trashing AJ, it becomes even more apparent that AJ made an excellent decision to veto the trade to a team that is definitely not going to the World Series. The voices that I hear are the same folks who can't imagine Buck not returning as the Manager next year after sucking up the team his entire time in Baltimore. The same people who are silent about the production from Davis sucking up salary.

Since the Losing Orioles are not willing to pay Black and Brown Players, AJ will get a good contract with a Real Major-league Team!

This is a ridiculous and unfounded statement. We don't get into politics here, but let me assure you, the ownership's politics would make this accusation even less than baseless.

Jones was already given a large contract, Machado had no desire to sign a long term contract, and once the rebuild started, it made no sense to keep Schoop around. As for Cruz, that was a baseball mistake, but it had nothing to do with his color.

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, Papeete said:

I noticed whenever a person wants to show the Black and Brown players that the team signed, they have to go back several Orioles Teams to find players. The facts speak for themselves, how many have they "paid", not how many have they signed. The Orioles Overpaid for Davis. They overpaid Trumbo" AJ signed a long-term contract years ago and it definitely was not overpaying.

Now, regarding Givens, if a team makes a good offer for him, he's gone! I didn't offer an opinion on trades! I am talking economics (who the Orioles pay) and ROI, not trades.

It's the same owner.

You have to go back years since the O's don't sign many players to long term deals.