Would you trade Adam Jones even up for these CF's?

[theocean]

3 hours ago, Tony-OH said:

Lol. that's not my definition buddy, that's the dictionary definition. Take up your issues with them. I clearly have said multiple times that I have zero issues with Jones evoking his 10/5. You are not going to accept that because you can't see past your fandom. 

I get it. Some fans are unable to look at things objectively. You are not the first or the last that will think this way about a player. 

I'd be interested to see if you thought Markakis was being "selfish" for taking the fourth year in Atlanta.....

And, I personally don't think the O's should bring back Jones - so not sure where you are getting this "fandom" thing from, or why you are trying to passive aggressively insult me here.

Regardless, insulting Jones' character is in poor taste. The man has done everything right here. You can keep acting like coping and pasting a definition makes you right - but the upvotes on posts in this thread speak otherwise. You clearly have an issue with him and it's not a good look.

 

[webbrick2010]

20 hours ago, Tony-OH said:

Well, I guess we will see. You could be right, but baseball execs seems to be a forgiving lot when they have a need and anyone who is not in a sour mood after playing all year with the Orioles you would have to question their desire to win. Players and coaches are human. Losing sucks no matter how much money you are making. 

and yet AJ turned down the opportunity to play on a good team, what does that really say about how important winning is to him? What message does it send to baseball executives?

[Redskins Rick]

9 hours ago, Tony-OH said:

Jones was already given a large contract, Machado had no desire to sign a long term contract, and once the rebuild started, it made no sense to keep Schoop around. As for Cruz, that was a baseball mistake, but it had nothing to do with his color.

I think most of us wanted to keep Cruz, but nobody except for Seattle was too afraid to do a 4 year deal.

Of course, hindsight is 20-20.

He also could have easily ended up like Davis or Howard.

[Tony-OH]

8 hours ago, theocean said:

I'd be interested to see if you thought Markakis was being "selfish" for taking the fourth year in Atlanta.....

And, I personally don't think the O's should bring back Jones - so not sure where you are getting this "fandom" thing from, or why you are trying to passive aggressively insult me here.

Regardless, insulting Jones' character is in poor taste. The man has done everything right here. You can keep acting like coping and pasting a definition makes you right - but the upvotes on posts in this thread speak otherwise. You clearly have an issue with him and it's not a good look.

 

First, I can have any opinion I want and if people want to disagree with it that's fine. I've dealt with fans for over 20 years, I get it, I understand how they think. You are convinced I have some major issue with Jones and I don't, I'm just not afraid to call out a selfish decision when I see one, regardless of the good things Jones has done.

This is the last time I will state this since you seem to have a hard time understanding, I did not say Jones has always been selfish, nor did I even say Jones is a selfish person, I'm saying he made a selfish opinion in this situation.

Enjoy the site.

[Tony-OH]

33 minutes ago, webbrick2010 said:

and yet AJ turned down the opportunity to play on a good team, what does that really say about how important winning is to him? What message does it send to baseball executives?

Jones made it clear why he didn't want to be traded. He wasn't worried about winning, or about his organization, or anything other than he wanted to position himself to get the most money this off season.

He had the right to do that and that's the route he choose. It remains to be seen whether that will affect his standing in the eyes of baseball executives or not. I think the fact that he'll be 33-years old, his power dropped off, and he's now a right fielder will hurt his value more than his decision at the trading deadline.

[Tony-OH]

26 minutes ago, Redskins Rick said:

I think most of us wanted to keep Cruz, but nobody except for Seattle was too afraid to do a 4 year deal.

Of course, hindsight is 20-20.

He also could have easily ended up like Davis or Howard.

I agree, at the time, I wasn't heartbroken over the Cruz loss, and not sure I would have given him the 4th year either. Obviously in hindsight, it was a bad decision. 

A few years later though I heard how much Cruz had meant to Machado and Schoop and how he helped integrate the "Dominican" corner of the locker room with the rest. Not surprisingly, that was 2014. Now, winning is the cure for most locker rooms and losing is the bane of locker rooms so sometimes it's hard to quantify how much a guy means to a locker room.

[Santandah]

57 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

Jones made it clear why he didn't want to be traded. He wasn't worried about winning, or about his organization, or anything other than he wanted to position himself to get the most money this off season.

He had the right to do that and that's the route he choose. It remains to be seen whether that will affect his standing in the eyes of baseball executives or not. I think the fact that he'll be 33-years old, his power dropped off, and he's now a right fielder will hurt his value more than his decision at the trading deadline.

So. I think that people are getting upset because the term selfish implies something ugly about Adam Jones, or that he's a bad guy. I don't think you mean to do that, but clearly it's rubbing some folks wrong.

Not to belabor this. But there is some nuance and connotation to the word selfish. Yes. It is absolutely true that Adam Jones did not put the Orioles first in this decision. But selfish, by definition and by implication, means that the only person Adam Jones considered in this equation was Adam Jones. There are many others who benefit if Adam Jones maximizes his salary over the next few years who are not Adam Jones nor the Orioles, such as his family, his charity....

I'm fine with saying that he made a decision that did not consider the Orioles first. I just think selfish is the wrong term to use.  

[Redskins Rick]

1 hour ago, Tony-OH said:

I agree, at the time, I wasn't heartbroken over the Cruz loss, and not sure I would have given him the 4th year either. Obviously in hindsight, it was a bad decision. 

A few years later though I heard how much Cruz had meant to Machado and Schoop and how he helped integrate the "Dominican" corner of the locker room with the rest. Not surprisingly, that was 2014. Now, winning is the cure for most locker rooms and losing is the bane of locker rooms so sometimes it's hard to quantify how much a guy means to a locker room.

The team started winning in 2012, and I am sure Cruz helped their situation with the other guys.

I think some of it might just be simple, the longer they stayed with the other core guys, they bonded more.

In addition, they also matured and grow from young men, and in some cases, getting married can have a positive effect on you.

They kept winning in 15 and 16, so the loss of Cruz wasn't determental to the clubhouse.

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, Tony-OH said:

Jones made it clear why he didn't want to be traded. He wasn't worried about winning, or about his organization, or anything other than he wanted to position himself to get the most money this off season.

He had the right to do that and that's the route he choose. It remains to be seen whether that will affect his standing in the eyes of baseball executives or not. I think the fact that he'll be 33-years old, his power dropped off, and he's now a right fielder will hurt his value more than his decision at the trading deadline.

Exactly.   Executives will look at whether the guy can play.   He’s not going to get dinged for refusing a trade.

[Redskins Rick]

2 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Exactly.   Executives will look at whether the guy can play.   He’s not going to get dinged for refusing a trade.

If he went elsewhere and played well, that could only improve his stock?

[Aglets]

40 minutes ago, Redskins Rick said:

If he went elsewhere and played well, that could only improve his stock?

Not necessarily as a platoon player.

By the way this is a silly argument because if he played really well in RF here his stock should be just as high.  The city you play for shouldn't be that big of a deal.

[Ruzious]

21 hours ago, Camden_yardbird said:

I'm so disappointed in so many posts in this thread, the character assassination is unreal.  Why can't we just disagree with what he did and respect his decision and respect what he has done for this organization?

How about we agree to say that he made a very foolish decision against the wishes of the organization we root for, but he earned the right to make it?  He made the decision so he could play CF everyday - with the (questionable at best) thought that that would keep up his value in getting a contract next year - as if teams can't tell by watching him and looking at his defensive stats that he can't play adequate CF.  Instead, he was moved off of CF, hasn't played every day, and loses almost every day.  Instead, he could have been giving Philly a boost they needed to make the playoffs and boosted his value that way. 

I can't imagine this is the way he wanted things to work out, but frankly - it was very predictable, and it's hard (for me anyway) to understand how he didn't see that.  Maybe that shoudn't bother me, but it does, and it tarnishes my view of him - though I certainly appreciate his body of work with the O's.        

[MurphDogg]

I'm not sure how many more years he will last in the Majors. He doesn't have the range for center or the arm for right and I'm not sure how much longer his bat will play in left. Be interesting to see what kind of offers he gets this off-season in a crowded market for corner outfielders.

[Il BuonO]

Just now, MurphDogg said:

I'm not sure how many more years he will last in the Majors. He doesn't have the range for center or the arm for right and I'm not sure how much longer his bat will play in left. Be interesting to see what kind of offers he gets this off-season in a crowded market for corner outfielders.

I thought the same regarding his arm in RF, but he’s recently made a couple strong throws from there.

[MurphDogg]

2 minutes ago, Il BuonO said:

I thought the same regarding his arm in RF, but he’s recently made a couple strong throws from there.

I admit, I haven't been watching closely the last few weeks. I may have caught him on a bad day, but I went to a game a few weeks ago where the other team hit two triples to right, that I felt should have been doubles or there should have at least been a play at third with a true right-fielder. Obviously, a limited sample size.