Can we please release Mike Gonzalez?!?!?

[Sports Guy]

This is the the thought process that results in an Atkins signing. When you think somone will return to career averages.

To even remotely compare the 2 is ridiculous.

Gonzo was a terrible signing because of money and loss of pick, not because of performance.

Atkins was a terrible signing because he was never all that great to begin with(if you park adjust his numbers) and he had significant signs of decline for several years.

EDIT: I see Chris already responded to this.

[Frobby]

Let's break this down a little.

Appearances 1-7: 5.1 IP, 9 H, 8 R, 8 ER, 4 BB, 4 K's, 13.50 ERA

Appearances 8-12: 5.1 IP, 3 H, 0 R, 0 ER, 0 BB, 7 K's, 0.00 ERA

Appearances 13-16: 2.0 IP, 8 H, 8 R, 4 ER, 1 BB, 1 K, 18.00 ERA

Obviously, you can't have a tradeoff like that all season. At some point, you have to give up on the guy. But, I think we need to remember those 5 straight outings where he was dominant, and also remember that after he returned in July last year, Gonzalez was quite dominant, pitching to a 2.78 ERA in 26 games and posting a 11.1 K/9 in that span. We have $6 mm invested in him this year, and I think we have to give him some more time to try to right the ship, because the payoff is high if he turns things around. We don't have real good options in the minors to replace him, either. So, just grin and bear it for another 4-6 weeks, try to nurse him along and hope he returns to form.

[NewMarketSean]

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/baltimore-sports-blog/bal-sportsblitz-your-turn0519,0,6366542.story

[Dipper9]

Let's break this down a little.

Appearances 1-7: 5.1 IP, 9 H, 8 R, 8 ER, 4 BB, 4 K's, 13.50 ERA

Appearances 8-12: 5.1 IP, 3 H, 0 R, 0 ER, 0 BB, 7 K's, 0.00 ERA

Appearances 13-16: 2.0 IP, 8 H, 8 R, 4 ER, 1 BB, 1 K, 18.00 ERA

Obviously, you can't have a tradeoff like that all season. At some point, you have to give up on the guy. But, I think we need to remember those 5 straight outings where he was dominant, and also remember that after he returned in July last year, Gonzalez was quite dominant, pitching to a 2.78 ERA in 26 games and posting a 11.1 K/9 in that span. We have $6 mm invested in him this year, and I think we have to give him some more time to try to right the ship, because the payoff is high if he turns things around. We don't have real good options in the minors to replace him, either. So, just grin and bear it for another 4-6 weeks, try to nurse him along and hope he returns to form.

Can you also find out how many inherited runners he has allowed to score? That is another key stat that is overlooked here. I know he had two last night that aren't "his" runs on his runs allowed, but allowing inherited runners to score is another key stat that I think (don't have the numbers to back it up) he is poor at.

[Nigel Tufnel]

Can you also find out how many inherited runners he has allowed to score? That is another key stat that is overlooked here. I know he had two last night that aren't "his" runs on his runs allowed, but allowing inherited runners to score is another key stat that I think (don't have the numbers to back it up) he is poor at.

Last year, he only let 1 of 19 score, but this year he's let in 4 of 9.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/g/gonzami02-pitch.shtml

EDIT: For comparison, last year David Hernandez had 10 of 20 inherited runners score, and Koji was 0 out of 14. Mariano Rivera was 3 out of 16. Sure seems like Gonzalez lets a bunch of guys score - I guess they're all his.

[nerdlinger]

So what would the process be for sending him down to AAA? Is it even possible or would he have to approve it?

[Frobby]

I never ever thought I would see the day that people were complaining that the Orioles "gave up" on Matt Albers. Just take five seconds and look at the stats from the Matt Albers Era with the Orioles, then throw in the torn labrum and the weight issues. No one shed a single tear when the O's released him, and to complain that he's not here anymore based on his 6 weeks with the Sox is hindight at its worst. It's like complaining that the O's got rid of Mike Timlin and he was solid for the Sox. In these cases, future success DOES NOT mean it was wrong for the O's to get rid of these guys.

I was on record as saying I did not agree with the decision to non-tender Albers. "Shedding tears" is too strong, but I did not believe it was wise to let him go. Here is what I wrote the day he was released:

I dislike this move. I don't like thinning our bullpen depth. Albers was a decent arm out of the pen and pretty rubber-armed, too. I wish him the best of luck. I'm sure he'll find a job somewhere.

I also wrote this:

Was it a good decision to non-tender Matt Albers and instead sign Jeremy Accardo for $1 mm?

Albers -- 28 years old this season, career ERA of 5.11 in 317 IP, including 4.60 in 191 innings as an Oriole. Last year he had a 4.52 ERA in 75 IP. Best year was 2008, 3.49 ERA in 49 innings before being shut down due to a partial labrum tear. That tear was addressed through rehab rather than surgery. Albers was arbitration eligible and Jeff Zrebiec esitmated he would have made $800-$900 K if we'd kept him. Albers would have been under team control though 2013

Accardo -- 29 years old this season, career ERA of 3.95. Last year he pitched 6.2 innings at the major league level to a 8.10 ERA, and 44 innings at Syracuse at a 3.48 ERA. In 2007 he had 30 saves and a 2.14 ERA for the Jays, but he's pitched only 43.2 innings as a major leaguer since then. Signed for $1.08 mm and is under team control for one more year after 2011.

To me, keeping Albers made more sense.

However, 81% of posters polled said they preferred to dump Albers and sign Accardo. http://forum.orioleshangout.com/forums/showthread.php/105370-Albers-vs.-Accardo

[JERSEYORIOLE]

Want to get sick....Gonzo makes more then 4/5 of our staff, Tillman, Matuz, Arrieta,Bergesen as well as Wieters, Jim Johnson,Berken,Jake Fox, Andino and Pie.... COMBINED!

Edit, added a few more

[Nigel Tufnel]

Want to get sick....Gonzo makes more then 4/5 of our staff, Tillman, Matuz, Arrieta,Bergesen as well as Wieters, Jim Johnson and Pie.... COMBINED!

I saw him leaving a game once after a game. He has a really nice car.

[Guest IRemember70]

There are a few issues here:

#1: A lot of people never wanted Gonzo to begin with. It was a horrible signing made worse by the fact that we lost a pick. HOWEVER, even those of us(at least most of us) who felt it was a poor signing, still figured he would be a very good reliever because, as Chris has pointed out, he always has been..when he was healthy.

But because a lot of people didn't want him, everything gets magnified...Not to mention, AMs inability to build a pen just frustrates everyone, which makes everything even worse.

#2: Chris continues to point out the career stats and yes, they are more relevant than the 12 IP this year. The thing I don't see being acknowledged is that maybe Gonzo just isn't as good as he was. Maybe his stuff isn't quite as good. Maybe his mechanics aren't as good. Maybe he has simply just lost it?

#3: Should we release him? Of course not...at least not now. The Orioles lost a pick and have pissed away a lot of money on him, so you have to continue to put him out there and see if he can succeed so that a trade can be made in July. If he is still terrible in a month or so, then cut him because he isn't going to improve his value that much over a month's period to where a trade is going to matter. But there is still plenty of time for him to get on a roll, as he was starting to do recently, before July.

I always think the singing of a high-priced relief pitcher is stupid. Always has been. I was shocked the Os did it. How good was he to begin with? This is the AL East, not the NL. Had some good outings last year, but that doesn't mean much as the games didn't mean much. I doubt the O's will ever get anything worth mentioning for him as long as he has that fat contract. Only a bonehead GM would take his contract based on the last year+ of baseball. Even if he becomes a free agent, I doubt he'll get any perks and a 7 figure deal. He is a gamble, most relievers are. They need to be home grown, abused and let go. This way, you get an addition draft pick from teams like the Os who haven't figured it out yet.

But I would have tried to keep Wiggy, Paterson and Albers, so what do I know. Keep in mind, relief pitching can be the difference between a 75 win team and a 90 win team. So just how long do you suck it up? If you have a good bullpen and starters consistently going 7-8 innings, you can afford it. We don't and can't. We have a great group of starters, but they are learning how to go deep into games. I for one, want to see Bergy or Tillman in the bullpen when Brian comes back. I believe you should always have 6 pitchers capable of starting on the staff. A lot of teams do. Lee and Hardy were the only off season deals I liked, assuming Wiggy was at thirdbase. Lee has struggled at the plate and should have been moved out of that position, but he is a great first baseman. Hardy is an upgrade over CI.