Jump to content

Would you take Jeremy Guthrie back?


jamalshw

Recommended Posts

How about Guthrie for Gregg?

If Guthrie needs to adjust some stuff, we can put him in Gregg's role for a couple weeks and then shift him back into the rotation.

The Rockies save a couple million. The O's get SP help.

P.S. Man, wouldn't that be great - Gregg (+2/3 months of Guthrie) for Hammel and Lindstrom. :D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 83
  • Created
  • Last Reply
Still wondering if he's damaged goods, even if you thought he would regress in Colorado I think no one expected this. Pretty embarrassing situation for the Rockies.

According to Fangraphs his velocity is actually up a little which doesn't support an injury. Less first strikes. He's fooling people less as evidenced by decreased O-Swing from last year. Absolutely nothing to like about any of his periphreals unless I missed a silver lining but his SO/BB is at its worst since his last year with Cleveland! And heck, even that year he wasn't allowing tater after tater.

Not sure if I'd want him back if he was free. Poor Guts :(

When he talked about throwing more curveballs in ST this year I knew he was in trouble. His secondaries (curveball/changeup) just aren't very good and he hasn't had that drop off the table slider in years. I'd guess his overall FB velocity is up because of more 4 seamers and less 2 seamers (and fangraphs is not distinguishing between the two). You're right that I did not expect him to be this bad, but I did think he was candidate for serious decline. There was a reason DD could not get as much as people were hoping to get for him. Personally, I think he's a decent BP candidate myself. ......but not for 8 million dollars obviously.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

How about Guthrie for Gregg?

If Guthrie needs to adjust some stuff, we can put him in Gregg's role for a couple weeks and then shift him back into the rotation.

The Rockies save a couple million. The O's get SP help.

P.S. Man, wouldn't that be great - Gregg (+2/3 months of Guthrie) for Hammel and Lindstrom. :D

Guthrie for Gregg? Genius
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would rather have Gregg. Seriously. Guthrie is toast.

I think Guthrie could gas it up pretty well in short inning stints. Throw in an occaisonal changeup/slder and I think he'd be pretty good out of the pen. I think he's done as a starter.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

While I was definitely in favor of trading Guthrie, I'd take him back on the cheap no doubt. He could be really solid middle-relief/spot start guy, and if he found his groove again, a solid 3/4/5 type guy, which we need just as much as we need a 1/2 type. Only thing that prevents a deal getting done is egg-on-face for the colorado GM.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

When he talked about throwing more curveballs in ST this year I knew he was in trouble. His secondaries (curveball/changeup) just aren't very good and he hasn't had that drop off the table slider in years.

My eyes want to disagree with you but the numbers say you're right. I always thought his breaking stuff was pretty sharp, thrown relatively hard and usually in a decent spot. The results don't agree with me though.

Also if his fastball is being lit up, which it is, that could effect his secondary stuff.

I'd guess his overall FB velocity is up because of more 4 seamers and less 2 seamers (and fangraphs is not distinguishing between the two).

He's actually throwing everything harder, which is surprising for anyone on that side of 30.

Any chance he's throwing harder because he's more well-rested because he's out of games early all the time? That's kind of a depressing idea. Could also be thinner and drier air (more likely IMO).

You're right that I did not expect him to be this bad, but I did think he was candidate for serious decline. There was a reason DD could not get as much as people were hoping to get for him. Personally, I think he's a decent BP candidate myself. ......but not for 8 million dollars obviously.

I think there's something to looking at just his road splits to figure out where he is. I mean, they're still pretty bad, but the Rockies could be selling really low for a guy who might be salvagable as long as he's not allowed in the state of Colorado. The question then becomes, who does he replace? And though Gregg isn't that good it's hard to say Guthrie would be better. He could replace Tommy Hunter but I'd actually rather see Tillman or... ... Tillman. Maybe Steve Johnson. Really tired of Hunter though.

It's so sad because all this great community guy stuff pretty much goes out the window with poor performance.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Rockies and Blue Jays have discussed a Jeremy Guthrie trade, according to FOX Sports' Ken Rosenthal.

According to the report, the Jays, who lost three starters to injury over four games last week, would pay most of the roughly $5 million salary owed to Guthrie until season's end. In return, Colorado would receive a "lesser prospect." Rosenthal suggests Double-A first baseman Mike McDade. The Rockies are discussing Guthrie with other organizations and the Jays are talking to other clubs about starting pitchers, according to Rosenthal. Guthrie has been a disaster in Colorado, posting a 7.02 ERA over 59 innings. Related: Blue Jays

Source: FOXSports.com Jun 17 - 11:42 PM

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Everyone is saying he is done... yet weve seen what sea level has done for Hammel. Is it that surprising that it did the exact opposite for Guthrie?

He relied on that pitch (2-seam) so heavily here, no wonder he is going to the off speed stuff more. Im banking on him returning to form with ANY other team.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My eyes want to disagree with you but the numbers say you're right. I always thought his breaking stuff was pretty sharp, thrown relatively hard and usually in a decent spot. The results don't agree with me though.

Also if his fastball is being lit up, which it is, that could effect his secondary stuff.

He's actually throwing everything harder, which is surprising for anyone on that side of 30.

Any chance he's throwing harder because he's more well-rested because he's out of games early all the time? That's kind of a depressing idea. Could also be thinner and drier air (more likely IMO).

I think there's something to looking at just his road splits to figure out where he is. I mean, they're still pretty bad, but the Rockies could be selling really low for a guy who might be salvagable as long as he's not allowed in the state of Colorado. The question then becomes, who does he replace? And though Gregg isn't that good it's hard to say Guthrie would be better. He could replace Tommy Hunter but I'd actually rather see Tillman or... ... Tillman. Maybe Steve Johnson. Really tired of Hunter though.

It's so sad because all this great community guy stuff pretty much goes out the window with poor performance.

I like Guthrie and have watched him closely over the years. I've watched several of his games this year in addition to at least 2-3 interviews he's given. I've been a fan, but even his fans could see he was outpitching his peripherals. It just caught up with him.

I went to Brooksbaseball (which unlike fangraphs) breaks out 4 seam FB (FA) and 2 seam/Sinker FB (SI) and confirmed that his 4 seam mix is much higher this year as compared to his career average . Not that Brooksbaseball is perfect, but I'm pretty comfortable his 4 seam mix is much higher (and more hittable) this year.

Career: 24 % - 4 seam / 38 % - 2 seam/sinker.

2012: 36% - 4 seam / 21 % - 2 seam/sinker.

Career:

http://brooksbaseball.net/player_cards/player_card.php?player=425386

2012

http://brooksbaseball.net/player_cards/player_card.php?player=425386

I personally think he'd be pretty good out of the pen and better than Gregg. But yeah, that's certainly not a given.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Everyone is saying he is done... yet weve seen what sea level has done for Hammel. Is it that surprising that it did the exact opposite for Guthrie?

He relied on that pitch (2-seam) so heavily here, no wonder he is going to the off speed stuff more. Im banking on him returning to form with ANY other team.

It does make you wonder, especially since Hammel and Lindstrom have had a lot of success with their 2 seamers this year. That said, Hammel has stated it had nothing to do with Colorado and both have basically stated they just decided to throw it more this year.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guthrie is no longer our concern and this trade is a slam dunk favoring the Orioles. I liked Guthrie, but I always wondered why the team laid an offensive egg most games that Guthrie went out there. Hammel and Chen are a huge reason why our pitching staff even looks like it has any staying power. Could you image Guthrie pitching to a 7'ish ERA as a member of the Orioles staff without Hammel? We wouldn't be in the position that we are in at the moment.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.


  • Posts

    • Matt Chapman to Giants 3 years 54 million.  Opt out after each season.  
    • Mountcastle was 10th in the AL in OPS in the 2nd half. That was post vertigo. With the WALL as a RHH. Only Ohtani, Casas, Seager, Tucker, Diaz, Witt, Rodriguez, Bregman, and Devers, had a higher 2nd half OPS. Pretty good company. 
    • On Draftkings, Kjerstad is the 9th favorite for AL ROY at +2200 Cowser is the 14th favorite for AL ROY at +3500
    • Funny, because I would say waiving other CF AAAA depth would mean that there is no reason to keep another backup CF around because McKenna is that guy. I also think Daniel Johnson must look good enough in camp to get rid of Burdick/Hilliard. It’s also interesting that we’ve only lost 4 players off waivers this offseason. Two of those were CF options. I don’t think the world of McKenna, but he’s a good bench option as being RH to a LH Mullins. 
    • I’ve arrived in Sarasota and will wear my Eddie Murray shirt to tomorrow’s game! Will save the Jones Jersey for Monday. So excited to be here!
    • LABR's AL only room tonight guessed confidence Ryan O'Hearn's playing time is secure over these two. An authentic Lowenstein is useful and the young DH/OF guys would be challenged early to outplay it. But if you feel like it was lightning in a bottle and even Mountcastle as a 1st round pick you happen to have but don't really like is someone you want to invest more in, then.... Only O'Hearn really stands in the way of 1B Mountcastle, DH Kjerstad (or Cowser) playing near enough to everyday.     Mountcastle should be getting towards those 10000 hours of practice to be really good at 1B defense, right? I wouldn't be shocked if a couple years back Elias could send mischievous texts to the Padres like, "we know you have to cut Jorge Mateo, and we're just waiting", and now the circle completes and Colorado or Chicago get to say "we know you have to cut Ryan O'Hearn and Ramon Urias, and we're just waiting (and no they can't be small pieces in your Dylan Cease bid)." Before Santander departs, the path is really more through the first basemen.    DL Hall being in the first big deal Elias actually closed hints to me Mountcastle could be next.    Mountcastle trade value in this slow market is constrained by JD Martinez or Brandon Belt hanging around wondering if they'll get jobs.     Belt may end up playing for less than the 1/4 Mountcastle will command in Arb1 this year.    Carlos Santana made it to ~$5M, a number Arb2 Mountcastle probably blows past for 2025 with a decent season. An early Mountcastle trade and O'Hearn fade could open a path for 1B Santander, RF Cowser, DH Kjerstad even (or however those 3 best defend those positions, probably something different every day based on the arms, bats, ballpark and weather that day. I still have hopes Mountcastle becomes a more significant contributor, but while we wait out Mayo and Basallo, Elias' most "My Guys" lineup in early 2024 might be like: SS Gunnar, C Adley, 1B Santander, LF Hays, DH Kjerstad, CF Mullins, 3B Westburg, RF Cowser, 2B Holliday
    • Surpised they still haven't started Westburg at 2B once yet this spring training after 8 games. He projects as the starting 2nd basemen on opening day.
  • Popular Contributors

×
×
  • Create New...