Would you take Jeremy Guthrie back?

[brvn52]

How about Guthrie for Gregg?

If Guthrie needs to adjust some stuff, we can put him in Gregg's role for a couple weeks and then shift him back into the rotation.

The Rockies save a couple million. The O's get SP help.

P.S. Man, wouldn't that be great - Gregg (+2/3 months of Guthrie) for Hammel and Lindstrom.

[CA-ORIOLE]

Still wondering if he's damaged goods, even if you thought he would regress in Colorado I think no one expected this. Pretty embarrassing situation for the Rockies.

According to Fangraphs his velocity is actually up a little which doesn't support an injury. Less first strikes. He's fooling people less as evidenced by decreased O-Swing from last year. Absolutely nothing to like about any of his periphreals unless I missed a silver lining but his SO/BB is at its worst since his last year with Cleveland! And heck, even that year he wasn't allowing tater after tater.

Not sure if I'd want him back if he was free. Poor Guts

When he talked about throwing more curveballs in ST this year I knew he was in trouble. His secondaries (curveball/changeup) just aren't very good and he hasn't had that drop off the table slider in years. I'd guess his overall FB velocity is up because of more 4 seamers and less 2 seamers (and fangraphs is not distinguishing between the two). You're right that I did not expect him to be this bad, but I did think he was candidate for serious decline. There was a reason DD could not get as much as people were hoping to get for him. Personally, I think he's a decent BP candidate myself. ......but not for 8 million dollars obviously.

[Rene88]

I would def take him if we are buying low and he doesn't cost much, no brainier IMO.

However, we really need a Garza type to have a serious shot at anything. SP just isn't that good.

[blid]

How about Guthrie for Gregg?

If Guthrie needs to adjust some stuff, we can put him in Gregg's role for a couple weeks and then shift him back into the rotation.

The Rockies save a couple million. The O's get SP help.

P.S. Man, wouldn't that be great - Gregg (+2/3 months of Guthrie) for Hammel and Lindstrom.

Guthrie for Gregg? Genius

[CA-ORIOLE]

Guthrie for Gregg? Genius

I think it really is a good idea. I think Guthrie could do well out of the BP imo and the Rockies could make out better by not having to DFA him.

[McLovin]

Guthrie for Gregg? Genius

I would rather have Gregg. Seriously. Guthrie is toast.

[CA-ORIOLE]

I would rather have Gregg. Seriously. Guthrie is toast.

I think Guthrie could gas it up pretty well in short inning stints. Throw in an occaisonal changeup/slder and I think he'd be pretty good out of the pen. I think he's done as a starter.

[Sparkwinder]

While I was definitely in favor of trading Guthrie, I'd take him back on the cheap no doubt. He could be really solid middle-relief/spot start guy, and if he found his groove again, a solid 3/4/5 type guy, which we need just as much as we need a 1/2 type. Only thing that prevents a deal getting done is egg-on-face for the colorado GM.

[Barnaby Graves]

When he talked about throwing more curveballs in ST this year I knew he was in trouble. His secondaries (curveball/changeup) just aren't very good and he hasn't had that drop off the table slider in years.

My eyes want to disagree with you but the numbers say you're right. I always thought his breaking stuff was pretty sharp, thrown relatively hard and usually in a decent spot. The results don't agree with me though.

Also if his fastball is being lit up, which it is, that could effect his secondary stuff.

I'd guess his overall FB velocity is up because of more 4 seamers and less 2 seamers (and fangraphs is not distinguishing between the two).

He's actually throwing everything harder, which is surprising for anyone on that side of 30.

Any chance he's throwing harder because he's more well-rested because he's out of games early all the time? That's kind of a depressing idea. Could also be thinner and drier air (more likely IMO).

You're right that I did not expect him to be this bad, but I did think he was candidate for serious decline. There was a reason DD could not get as much as people were hoping to get for him. Personally, I think he's a decent BP candidate myself. ......but not for 8 million dollars obviously.

I think there's something to looking at just his road splits to figure out where he is. I mean, they're still pretty bad, but the Rockies could be selling really low for a guy who might be salvagable as long as he's not allowed in the state of Colorado. The question then becomes, who does he replace? And though Gregg isn't that good it's hard to say Guthrie would be better. He could replace Tommy Hunter but I'd actually rather see Tillman or... ... Tillman. Maybe Steve Johnson. Really tired of Hunter though.

It's so sad because all this great community guy stuff pretty much goes out the window with poor performance.

[paulcoates]

The Rockies and Blue Jays have discussed a Jeremy Guthrie trade, according to FOX Sports' Ken Rosenthal.

According to the report, the Jays, who lost three starters to injury over four games last week, would pay most of the roughly $5 million salary owed to Guthrie until season's end. In return, Colorado would receive a "lesser prospect." Rosenthal suggests Double-A first baseman Mike McDade. The Rockies are discussing Guthrie with other organizations and the Jays are talking to other clubs about starting pitchers, according to Rosenthal. Guthrie has been a disaster in Colorado, posting a 7.02 ERA over 59 innings. Related: Blue Jays

Source: FOXSports.com Jun 17 - 11:42 PM

[SilentJames]

Nope. Sorry.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

[bradyrocks]

Everyone is saying he is done... yet weve seen what sea level has done for Hammel. Is it that surprising that it did the exact opposite for Guthrie?

He relied on that pitch (2-seam) so heavily here, no wonder he is going to the off speed stuff more. Im banking on him returning to form with ANY other team.

[CA-ORIOLE]

My eyes want to disagree with you but the numbers say you're right. I always thought his breaking stuff was pretty sharp, thrown relatively hard and usually in a decent spot. The results don't agree with me though.

Also if his fastball is being lit up, which it is, that could effect his secondary stuff.

He's actually throwing everything harder, which is surprising for anyone on that side of 30.

Any chance he's throwing harder because he's more well-rested because he's out of games early all the time? That's kind of a depressing idea. Could also be thinner and drier air (more likely IMO).

I think there's something to looking at just his road splits to figure out where he is. I mean, they're still pretty bad, but the Rockies could be selling really low for a guy who might be salvagable as long as he's not allowed in the state of Colorado. The question then becomes, who does he replace? And though Gregg isn't that good it's hard to say Guthrie would be better. He could replace Tommy Hunter but I'd actually rather see Tillman or... ... Tillman. Maybe Steve Johnson. Really tired of Hunter though.

It's so sad because all this great community guy stuff pretty much goes out the window with poor performance.

I like Guthrie and have watched him closely over the years. I've watched several of his games this year in addition to at least 2-3 interviews he's given. I've been a fan, but even his fans could see he was outpitching his peripherals. It just caught up with him.

I went to Brooksbaseball (which unlike fangraphs) breaks out 4 seam FB (FA) and 2 seam/Sinker FB (SI) and confirmed that his 4 seam mix is much higher this year as compared to his career average . Not that Brooksbaseball is perfect, but I'm pretty comfortable his 4 seam mix is much higher (and more hittable) this year.

Career: 24 % - 4 seam / 38 % - 2 seam/sinker.

2012: 36% - 4 seam / 21 % - 2 seam/sinker.

Career:

http://brooksbaseball.net/player_cards/player_card.php?player=425386

2012

http://brooksbaseball.net/player_cards/player_card.php?player=425386

I personally think he'd be pretty good out of the pen and better than Gregg. But yeah, that's certainly not a given.

[CA-ORIOLE]

Everyone is saying he is done... yet weve seen what sea level has done for Hammel. Is it that surprising that it did the exact opposite for Guthrie?

He relied on that pitch (2-seam) so heavily here, no wonder he is going to the off speed stuff more. Im banking on him returning to form with ANY other team.

It does make you wonder, especially since Hammel and Lindstrom have had a lot of success with their 2 seamers this year. That said, Hammel has stated it had nothing to do with Colorado and both have basically stated they just decided to throw it more this year.

[GoldGlove21]

Guthrie is no longer our concern and this trade is a slam dunk favoring the Orioles. I liked Guthrie, but I always wondered why the team laid an offensive egg most games that Guthrie went out there. Hammel and Chen are a huge reason why our pitching staff even looks like it has any staying power. Could you image Guthrie pitching to a 7'ish ERA as a member of the Orioles staff without Hammel? We wouldn't be in the position that we are in at the moment.