TT: Gausman's time will come, but it's not now

[AlbionHero]

Like others have said, he'll get better facing major league competition... and its not like we'll be given a much better chance with the other guys we can throw out there in the #5 spot. Why not go with the high ceiling guy who can learn on the job? Hes too good for AA right now, and Orioles don't seem to like putting top prospects in AAA.

Because he's sucking so much that he's taking us out of the pennant race. This isn't little league. He's playing a man's league where it's about getting it done and winning. AKA, Major League Baseball.

Unless he pitched a shut out yesterday, his game wouldn't have changed how we did yesterday. And he kept us in the game and gave us a chance to win against Detroit.

[Tony-OH]

Like others have said, he'll get better facing major league competition... and its not like we'll be given a much better chance with the other guys we can throw out there in the #5 spot. Why not go with the high ceiling guy who can learn on the job? Hes too good for AA right now, and Orioles don't seem to like putting top prospects in AAA.

Unless he pitched a shut out yesterday, his game wouldn't have changed how we did yesterday. And he kept us in the game and gave us a chance to win against Detroit.

He's given a chance to win in one of his four starts. Arrieta or Britton could do better. Gausman needs to improve his command and slider. He can do that at AA or AAA. If we were a last place team then no problems, but if the O's consider themselves a contender, they can not keep running him out there.

[Il BuonO]

He's given a chance to win in one of his four starts. Arrieta or Britton could do better. Gausman needs to improve his command and slider. He can do that at AA or AAA. If we were a last place team then no problems, but if the O's consider themselves a contender, they can not keep running him out there.

Arrieta hasn't given his AAA team a chance to win the last two games.

Britton has though. I advocated for Gausman, I thought it was worth a shot. At this point, I think Tony is right. I do think they should reevaluate his numbers at AA and consider moving him up. I know Harbor Park plays into peoples argument but I don't think he's being challenged by the hitters at AA.

I still think using him out of the pen later in the year would be valuable experience for him. It worked for Earl.

[Norfolk orioles]

He's given a chance to win in one of his four starts. Arrieta or Britton could do better. Gausman needs to improve his command and slider. He can do that at AA or AAA. If we were a last place team then no problems, but if the O's consider themselves a contender, they can not keep running him out there.

Exactly my feelings.

Sending him out there to get torched again and again isn't helping him long term. He can't throw his slider effectively in the majors because it keeps getting belted out of the park.

He needs to be WORKING ON THAT PITCH!!! It's not even close to developed yet and without a decent third pitch or much deception in his delivery he just simply isn't ready yet. We all see the raw stuff, but that's all it is right now, raw stuff. He doesn't have the secondaries to go 6 or 7 or even 8 right now because he's basically a two pitch pitcher and no matter how good they are, major league hitters will eventually spit on one of those and wail the other. He is raw and he leaves far too many pitches over the middle of the plate in addition to not having a good enough slider.

He can't work on it in the majors because he's just going to keep getting hammered and knocked out early and that is no good for anyone.

Send him down to AAA, let him face some tougher competition than he would in Baltimore but not so tough that he can't even learn anything because he keeps getting tattooed. He's not going to magically learn how to locate consistently and throw a dominant slider in the next few games against major league teams like Boston and LA. It's just not gonna happen.

Let him go down, develop some consistency, work on his deception and delivery, work on his slider and then call him back up when he is READY.

But if you know anything about pitching, you can clearly see he has major league stuff but not major league pitching ability. There is a distinct difference.

Location is far more important than velocity at the major league level for a STARTING pitcher. Kimbell and chapman can come in and throw gas and dominate for one inning but if they tried that for 6/7 innings, eventually hitters would start catching up and belting them.

Gausman doesn't have the ability to go 6-7 in the majors yet. He has the talent, he just hasn't harnessed it yet. I absolutely believe he will one day, but throwing him out at 22 years old with only 2 good pitches and mediocre control is not just highly questionable, it's bad for his development and for the overall strength of the team. We can't just keep sitting by and watching him get belted and "learning". We are trying to go back to the playoffs and to get there we need a pitcher with craft not a developmental project (no matter how much talent he has to develop).

Bring back britton or arrieta.....or make a trade for someone half way decent like Norris or nolasco. I think Nolasco could play much better with the O's defense behind him and some solid run support and I highly doubt he would cost us much since Loria only seems to care about money. He'll save quite a bit by selling nolasco to us for some mid level prospects and to get us to take his salary.

Regardless of what we do, leaving gausman out there to get belted because he clearly isn't ready yet is not the right thing to do. Letting guys learn on the job may have been the Orioles way for the last 14 years or so before last year and thus year, but we are now a contender and as such, must give ourselves the greatest chance to win we possibly can every time out. Sending out a 22 year old with 2 pitches and control problems does not accomplish this, at least in my mind.

[Tony-OH]

Exactly my feelings.

Sending him out there to get torched again and again isn't helping him long term. He can't throw his slider effectively in the majors because it keeps getting belted out of the park.

He needs to be WORKING ON THAT PITCH!!! It's not even close to developed yet and without a decent third pitch or much deception in his delivery he just simply isn't ready yet. We all see the raw stuff, but that's all it is right now, raw stuff. He doesn't have the secondaries to go 6 or 7 or even 8 right now because he's basically a two pitch pitcher and no matter how good they are, major league hitters will eventually spit on one of those and wail the other. He is raw and he leaves far too many pitches over the middle of the plate in addition to not having a good enough slider.

He can't work on it in the majors because he's just going to keep getting hammered and knocked out early and that is no good for anyone.

Send him down to AAA, let him face some tougher competition than he would in Baltimore but not so tough that he can't even learn anything because he keeps getting tattooed. He's not going to magically learn how to locate consistently and throw a dominant slider in the next few games against major league teams like Boston and LA. It's just not gonna happen.

Let him go down, develop some consistency, work on his deception and delivery, work on his slider and then call him back up when he is READY.

But if you know anything about pitching, you can clearly see he has major league stuff but not major league pitching ability. There is a distinct difference.

Location is far more important than velocity at the major league level for a STARTING pitcher. Kimbell and chapman can come in and throw gas and dominate for one inning but if they tried that for 6/7 innings, eventually hitters would start catching up and belting them.

Gausman doesn't have the ability to go 6-7 in the majors yet. He has the talent, he just hasn't harnessed it yet. I absolutely believe he will one day, but throwing him out at 22 years old with only 2 good pitches and mediocre control is not just highly questionable, it's bad for his development and for the overall strength of the team. We can't just keep sitting by and watching him get belted and "learning". We are trying to go back to the playoffs and to get there we need a pitcher with craft not a developmental project (no matter how much talent he has to develop).

Bring back britton or arrieta.....or make a trade for someone half way decent like Norris or nolasco. I think Nolasco could play much better with the O's defense behind him and some solid run support and I highly doubt he would cost us much since Loria only seems to care about money. He'll save quite a bit by selling nolasco to us for some mid level prospects and to get us to take his salary.

Regardless of what we do, leaving gausman out there to get belted because he clearly isn't ready yet is not the right thing to do. Letting guys learn on the job may have been the Orioles way for the last 14 years or so before last year and thus year, but we are now a contender and as such, must give ourselves the greatest chance to win we possibly can every time out. Sending out a 22 year old with 2 pitches and control problems does not accomplish this, at least in my mind.

Agreed 100 percent. Britton should replace him for now. I know it's tough for some people to accept, but Gausman is just not ready and the idea that he can't learn in the minors is ridiculous. Send him to AAA, have him throw at least 20 sliders a game and if that slider doesn't come around, start working on a curveball. If he could throw an effective mid 70s curveball, that would be perfect for his mid 90s fastball and low eighties change.

[glenn__davis]

I must be losing my mind, but wasn't Gausman supposed to have a pretty good curve coming out of college?

I seem to remember posts about him related to Bundy, how they took away Bundy's best pitch (cutter) to stop him from relying on it and learning to hone his other pitches. I could have sworn they had done a similar thing with Gausman, where they told him not to throw curveballs because they wanted him working only on the fastball command and change-up.

[Say O!]

I must be losing my mind, but wasn't Gausman supposed to have a pretty good curve coming out of college?

I seem to remember posts about him related to Bundy, how they took away Bundy's best pitch (cutter) to stop him from relying on it and learning to hone his other pitches. I could have sworn they had done a similar thing with Gausman, where they told him not to throw curveballs because they wanted him working only on the fastball command and change-up.

IIRC, Gausman threw both a slider and curve in college. Both were inconsistent. O's felt that the slider was better and had him concentrate on that by dropping the curve from his repertoire.

[Tony-OH]

IIRC, Gausman threw both a slider and curve in college. Both were inconsistent. O's felt that the slider was better and had him concentrate on that by dropping the curve from his repertoire.

Yep, Gausman has never had great breaking stuff but his fastball-changeup was always considered special. The good news is he can flash a plus slider on occasion. The bad news is he mixes in some real flat ones and he tends to miss in the middle of the plate when it flattens out.

[glenn__davis]

IIRC, Gausman threw both a slider and curve in college. Both were inconsistent. O's felt that the slider was better and had him concentrate on that by dropping the curve from his repertoire.

Yep, Gausman has never had great breaking stuff but his fastball-changeup was always considered special. The good news is he can flash a plus slider on occasion. The bad news is he mixes in some real flat ones and he tends to miss in the middle of the plate when it flattens out.

Thanks. I definitely remember it being framed by a poster (and I have no idea who at this point) that the O's had asked him to drop the curve because it was so good that they wanted him to learn without it. Obviously, that seems to have been incorrect.

[Tony-OH]

Thanks. I definitely remember it being framed by a poster (and I have no idea who at this point) that the O's had asked him to drop the curve because it was so good that they wanted him to learn without it. Obviously, that seems to have been incorrect.

IIRC, Gausman did throw a curveball in college as well, but the Orioles had him drop it because it was not very good and they felt the slider was a better pitch. Well, if the slider was the better pitch, than the curveball must have been pretty bad.

[calmunderfire]

I agree he should go down and work on his craft. A lot of people are worried about his slider and rightfully so. I'm more worried about his fastball command. It's not very good. He's not getting ahead with it. He's not hitting the corners with it.

You can fine tune breaking pitches, but fastball command is tricky. It's sort of like you have it or don't in many pitchers.

[clapdiddy]

I agree he should go down and work on his craft. A lot of people are worried about his slider and rightfully so. I'm more worried about his fastball command. It's not very good. He's not getting ahead with it. He's not hitting the corners with it.

You can fine tune breaking pitches, but fastball command is tricky. It's sort of like you have it or don't in many pitchers.

See: Arrieta, Jake

[waroriole]

I agree he should go down and work on his craft. A lot of people are worried about his slider and rightfully so. I'm more worried about his fastball command. It's not very good. He's not getting ahead with it. He's not hitting the corners with it.

You can fine tune breaking pitches, but fastball command is tricky. It's sort of like you have it or don't in many pitchers.

Yeah, I agree with this. He has to put the FB on the corners. Right now he's leaving too many in the middle of the plate.

It's time to give Britton one last shot.

[ShaneDawg85]

The one thing he has been able to do is get some strikeouts. Granted, they've been in very short outings, but the 2.5 SO/BB ratio is actually second best on the club right now behind Tillman, and strikeouts is something that this staff does not get enough of. Part of that is because teams haven't seen him enough, but part of that is having good velocity on the fastball and the arsenal of pitches he has to throw. That's of course mitigated by the fact that he's given up too many home runs, too many hits, and not pitched deep enough. He's better served being sent down, because as good as I believe he is and can be, I don't expect him to just magically turn it on right now. Maybe if he goes down for a couple of weeks and then comes back up, but right now. But, it hasn't been all bad for him, and it's something to build from.

[Stropofhearts]

Daniel Cabrera, Hayden Penn, Matt Riley, Sidney Ponson, etc. I thought weeks ago that he was no good. I still feel that way. I don't understand for a second in the "should we trade for a TOR starter" thread how people say that Kevin Gausman alone is more valuable than Peavy. Gausman just doesn't get major league hitters out.