Accepting being competitive??

[El Gordo]

Last time I looked this team has a winning record. To think that team's will never lose is silly. If you don't think this team is giving their best effort you're not watching the same games I am. The 96 M is not wasted. But the fact is that this team is built to be competitive for the next few years, but not to win the WS. It will cost more than 96 M to do that and they don't want to spend it. Deal with it or find another team.

[El Gordo]

With the 25M additional in TV revenue I am thinking 110M. But if the O's fall apart in the next month, that could go down.

We will have a winning record in Sept., but we might not be able to have one for the next 10 games. I could see us going 3-7 during that stretch and that would put us out of it. I don't care how much TV money they get they aren't going over 100 M next year.

[wildcard]

The guy hasn't pitched that many ML games. It's not a matter of faith, it's simply realistic to think it will take more than a season for him to develop into a TOR SP. He may well be our number one SP in 2016 but not next year. How long has it taken for Tillman to come into his own? Especially with the pitching development track record of this organization. Next year's rotation is Tillman, Chen, Gonzo, Norris, and Gausman. That's just not as good as BOS' rotation next year of Bucholz, Lester, Peavy, Lacky, and Doubront/Dempster.

Gausman has better tools than Tillman to start with. He is now showing well at AAA. He has a good chance to be something special in the near term. First pitcher taken in the draft. Major college experience. He is close at this point. Let's watch how he does in September.

[wildcard]

We will have a winning record in Sept., but we might not be able to have one for the next 10 games. I could see us going 3-7 during that stretch and that would put us out of it. I don't care how much TV money they get they aren't going over 100 M next year.

I think you will be surprised. Everyones payroll in going up next year except the Yankees. They have to get under 189M. The rest of the league will be spending with 25M additional revenue next year. Competition for FAs will be out of sight.

However, the amount the O's spend could be altered by a bad September.

[SeaBird]

We need to go at least 6-4 the next 10 G. We can totally do that.

Right now I can't share your optimism. They have the Rays tonight followed by 3 against Oakland and then they are on the road for 3 super critical/must win games each against the Sox and NYY. Winning series is what it's all about.

[El Gordo]

Gausman has better tools than Tillman to start with. He is now showing well at AAA. He has a good chance to be something special in the near term. First pitcher taken in the draft. Major college experience. He is close at this point. Let's watch how he does in September.

[wildcard]

Last time I looked this team has a winning record. To think that team's will never lose is silly. If you don't think this team is giving their best effort you're not watching the same games I am. The 96 M is not wasted. But the fact is that this team is built to be competitive for the next few years, but not to win the WS. It will cost more than 96 M to do that and they don't want to spend it. Deal with it or find another team.

I expect the O's to lose at least 40% of the time. I would bet that DD and Buck think there is a way to win the WS at some point.

[DrungoHazewood]

I just hate the acceptance of losing. Its that simple. By the manager, by the team, by the fans. Its like, OK the other guys are better than us. Let's just tip our hats. I can't stand it.

I want Buck to say. This is not good enough. We have to do better. And not qualify it with anything. I want the players to say we have to make this thing work. I don't question their effort. I just want them to say and show that effort is not enough.

Spending 96M is dramatic. Wasting 96M is even more dramatic.

What does losing mean? How about less fans coming to the park in September. How about less fans watching on MASN. Sponsors pulling ads. How about having less revenue, things start to go in the wrong direction. Less money to spend on salaries.

There should be some reality here for management and players.

I still don't know what you're talking about, aside from Buck slightly altering how he does his postgame interviews. Nobody likes to lose. And if you can't say "we gave a good effort and it wasn't enough, a good team beat us today" then you're probably being a little disingenuous.

[DrungoHazewood]

Last time I looked this team has a winning record. To think that team's will never lose is silly. If you don't think this team is giving their best effort you're not watching the same games I am. The 96 M is not wasted. But the fact is that this team is built to be competitive for the next few years, but not to win the WS. It will cost more than 96 M to do that and they don't want to spend it. Deal with it or find another team.

I agree with you up to the point where you say they're not built to win the World Series. There basically isn't any way to build a competitive team that is more likely than other competitive teams to win the World Series. Well... except maybe to build a SuperTeam that wins 115 games. They'd be a bit more likely than the standard 1-in-8 chance of winning it all. And no, before you say it, having an ace isn't the magic key to winning the Series.

[Nigel Tufnel]

I still don't know what you're talking about, aside from Buck slightly altering how he does his postgame interviews. Nobody likes to lose. And if you can't say "we gave a good effort and it wasn't enough, a good team beat us today" then you're probably being a little disingenuous.

Yeah, that's pretty much the mindset you need to have in baseball. If you start thinking like you would in football, where every game is life or death, then you'd burn yourself out in a month.

[El Gordo]

I expect the O's to lose at least 40% of the time. I would bet that DD and Buck think there is a way to win the WS at some point.

I wouldn't. Not during their current contracts. Buck maybe but DD, I think not. I think he understands the limitations he's working under and doing the best he can. If they want to win a WS they need to go after Abreu, and sign Garza for next year. They won't do either. They wont extend Wieters or Davis. They'll sign a RH power bat for DH, pick up some bullpen help, and be a 86-89 W team next year just as they are this year.

[DrungoHazewood]

I wouldn't. Not during their current contracts. Buck maybe but DD, I think not. I think he understands the limitations he's working under and doing the best he can. If they want to win a WS they need to go after Abreu, and sign Garza for next year. They won't do either. They wont extend Wieters or Davis. They'll sign a RH power bat for DH, pick up some bullpen help, and be a 86-89 W team next year just as they are this year.

The way to win the World Series is to get to the playoffs a lot. That's DD's goal, and that's Buck's goal. If you get to the playoffs enough you will win the World Series. There is no secret key to roster construction that makes you a lot more likely to successfully navigate a bunch of short best-of-X series.

I think I could point to the Braves of the 90s as an example of the type of team you want to put together, and they're thought of as incredibly bad at the postseason.

[El Gordo]

I agree with you up to the point where you say they're not built to win the World Series. There basically isn't any way to build a competitive team that is more likely than other competitive teams to win the World Series. Well... except maybe to build a SuperTeam that wins 115 games. They'd be a bit more likely than the standard 1-in-8 chance of winning it all. And no, before you say it, having an ace isn't the magic key to winning the Series.

Having two aces might be,. We don't have any, nor will we in the next two or three years while the core is intact. Yes, there is no guarantee to winning the WS but having 5 mid rotation SP, who can't get beyond the 6th inning, is a pretty good guarantee that you won't.

[El Gordo]

The way to win the World Series is to get to the playoffs a lot. That's DD's goal, and that's Buck's goal. If you get to the playoffs enough you will win the World Series. There is no secret key to roster construction that makes you a lot more likely to successfully navigate a bunch of short best-of-X series.

How many WS winners did so with mediocre SP? You can get to the playoffs with that kind of pitching and a strong pen. But teams built to win enough games to reach the playoffs, aren't necessarily built to win a 7 game series. The best way to do that is have two or three strong shutdown SP. And having those pitchers won't hurt your chances of getting to the playoffs either. Do you honestly think we could go deep into the playoffs and get to the WS with our current rotation? Sure anything is possible, but that is not likely.

[SeaBird]

I think you will be surprised. Everyones payroll in going up next year except the Yankees. They have to get under 189M. The rest of the league will be spending with 25M additional revenue next year. Competition for FAs will be out of sight.

However, the amount the O's spend could be altered by a bad September.

Don't hold your breath. It was a goal of the FO but not a mandate and the Yankees came to understand it was unrealistic. "They're going to be over 189," one source familiar with the Yankees' plans said. "They know it. Everyone knows it. You can't run a $3 billion team with the intentions of saving a few million dollars."

Besides, if/when Rodriguez loses his appeal, NY will not have to pay him whatever salary is forfeited while he sits and that savings gives them extra payroll to play with. For example, a full year out of baseball for him is $27M salary which translates to an extra 14 percent of payroll to play with.

Saving salary on a Rodriguez suspension is what caused Showalter to yell "foul" and complain that with that cash break Wieters would be in pinstripes.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/yankees-appear-to-be-scrapping-plan-of-staying-below--189m-payroll-235433974.html