Ugh. Are we going to have to blow it up?

[weams]

.366 actually.

Still very frustrating(to me at least) that he was included in the Norris deal though. I was hopeful that he would get the opportunity to play LF and leadoff this coming year. I think the guy is going to turn out to be a real spark plug type player for a number of years.

.366 over his time in the minors. It was .403 in 2013 with Norfolk, however.

The Orioles evaluated him to be a LF or DH. Without power. Those guys play in Houston. Bud does have value BTW. You could flip him right now if you wanted to.

A guy with his great OBP that Struggled to put up a .750 OPS in the minors. Think about that. He does not have speed either. Great kid. Great idea. Too bad he is not a second baseman.

[Orioles0615]

I almost feel like blowing it up would be worthless also. They blow it up to get young guys to create a new core. Then they will refuse to add to that core again and will not able to afford the new players when there time is due, so we trade them off. Rinse, Repeat. Then the viscous circle of hell is complete.

[webbrick2010]

The Orioles evaluated him to be a LF or DH. Without power. Those guys play in Houston. Bud does have value BTW. You could flip him right now if you wanted to.

A guy with his great OBP that Struggled to put up a .750 OPS in the minors. Think about that. He does not have speed either. Great kid. Great idea. Too bad he is not a second baseman.

He stole more bases with Houston last year than McClouth did with the O's over the last couple months of the season. 7S, 1CS in 46 games with Houston.

If he hadn't been given away he would have led the 2014 O's in stolen bases, and probably OBP.

[TiredofLosing20]

Seriously. Not a "sky is falling" thread. It's a legitimate question. But if we aren't going to spend FA money and try to follow the Tampa/Oakland/Minnesota model, shouldn't we just try to trade off everybody but Manny and AJ and stock up the farm system? I think a "core four" of Manny, AJ, Bundy, and Gausman would play nicely if we can identify, obtain, and develop the right prospects.

I always think of SG's old Billy Beane sig line quote. Something to the effect of "You're either rebuilding for something special, or you're on the verge of something special. To be in between is foolish." We are smack dab in between. I think we are very close, but not close enough, and unless Schoop, Urrutia, Flaherty, and Gausman are ready to step up and play starting OD 2014 and be real contributors, I just don't see how we're going to compete for a championship. I'd rather work towards a 2016/17 championship than compete for 82 wins in 2014.

Clowns to the left of me, Joker's to the right

[maybenxtyr]

As a fan it is easy to say what should or shouldn't be done because we are not privy to, or responsible for the costs. However, if they have a hard budget, my concern comes from not being more creative with what they do have to work with.

Why are they not trying to lock CT up at an affordable deal yet? How about Manny? I know he's just starting out, but the talent is there if you can by out some of his arb years.

I enjoyed last season even without the playoffs, and I certainly would not turn away just because they had to move players with a contingency on planning for 2015/2016. We have had it rough for a while as O's fans, but through that time they always lacked a plan. I feel it is still the same problem, but they've been fortunate to be competitive. Winning does hide some of the problems. Also, DD has started implementing plans to improve some of the lower le el stuff, not trying to bash him here, but more must be done at the ML level.

[webbrick2010]

Man that Bud Norris trade is going to move up to one of the worst all time O's trades

Hoes, Hader and the draft pick by themselves all have more value than Norris.

Norris is just awful, his ceiling is a RH specialist.

I hate this trade more and more

[twinedenter]

I almost feel like blowing it up would be worthless also. They blow it up to get young guys to create a new core. Then they will refuse to add to that core again and will not able to afford the new players when there time is due, so we trade them off. Rinse, Repeat. Then the viscous circle of hell is complete.

Yep you just defined EXACTLY how Tampa and Oakland do business. They trade the "core" players for young kids to create more "core" players.

The problem is sustaining that way of thinking. You can't make mistakes.

The O's need to be blown up if they won't take the necessary steps to become a contender. Ie money or trades. We are a 4th place team at best, at the moment.

[Rene88]

Man that Bud Norris trade is going to move up to one of the worst all time O's trades

Hoes, Hader and the draft pick by themselves all have more value than Norris.

Norris is just awful, his ceiling is a RH specialist.

I hate this trade more and more

You may be right but if we had a Bud Norris type to START the season last year, we would hAve made the playoffs. Too little, too late.

And what have we done to address starting pitching so far this offseason? Not a damn thing.

You wonder why people are angry.

I honest to god believe a random group of 10 posters on here could do a better job in building a club than our current brass.

[twinedenter]

Man that Bud Norris trade is going to move up to one of the worst all time O's trades

Hoes, Hader and the draft pick by themselves all have more value than Norris.

Norris is just awful, his ceiling is a RH specialist.

I hate this trade more and more

Yep it was a horrible trade. I believe Hader will be better than Norris. Acquiring K-Rod for Nick Delmonico was nothing short of terrible too. Personally I wasn't fond of the Feldman deal either, but he did pitch OK.

They were all knee-jerk reactions because our FO has no idea how to be proactive. Dumpster Dan sat on hands last off-season, deja-vu anyone, and didn't acquire what we needed to compete. Then in the end, over paid for K-Rod and Norris.

Sadly, the minor system, that was thin to begin with, got thinner. VERY poor planning by our "fabulous" general manager.

See the pattern?

[PeteU]

Man that Bud Norris trade is going to move up to one of the worst all time O's trades

Hoes, Hader and the draft pick by themselves all have more value than Norris.

Norris is just awful, his ceiling is a RH specialist.

I hate this trade more and more

How do you know? We haven't even had a full season for it to truly play out.

I still think Norris has potential. And who knows what Hoes and Hader will do.

Just because it was to Houston doesn't mean it was Glenn Davis II.

[twinedenter]

You may be right but if we had a Bud Norris type to START the season last year, we would hAve made the playoffs. Too little, too late.

And what have we done to address starting pitching so far this offseason? Not a damn thing.

You wonder why people are angry.

I honest to god believe a random group of 10 posters on here could do a better job in building a club than our current brass.

Problem is people out here wanna blame PA. Although he may be constricting some moves, it isn't like Duquette has nothing to work with.

Example: He has a catcher, who the fans have turned on, who he could trade and improve this club. Problem is, we have seen DD's trades and we usually don't come out ahead.

[PeteU]

Tampa Bay and Oakland also struggle to draw 15,000 a game most nights. You know why? Because the fans can't get invested in their players. What good is rooting for a top tier player if you know he'll be gone in a few years?

And you can blame it on the stadiums all you want, but if the A's and Rays weren't such a player carousel, the Trop and Coliseum would be near full on a daily basis. And there'd also be better public support to have new stadiums built for those teams.

Listen, I'm as frustrated as anyone with the apparent tight fistedness of the front office. And perhaps it's all just banging our head against the wall at this point.

But even then, we shouldn't want to be Tampa Bay or Oakland. Nor do we need to be, which is what infuriates everyone.

[Rene88]

Problem is people out here wanna blame PA. Although he may be constricting some moves, it isn't like Duquette has nothing to work with.

Example: He has a catcher, who the fans have turned on, who he could trade and improve this club. Problem is, we have seen DD's trades and we usually don't come out ahead.

DD seems to be good at finding cheap talent and focusing on OBP (which we lack, funny) but his trades are not the best, agreed. They aren't Roland Hemond or Syd Thrift bad though...

[twinedenter]

The problem is if your really gonna play the mid-market role, then you have to play it out.

Mid-Market teams trade guys like Weiters and Davis because they HAVE to.

Our FO is apparently going to try and ride the fence. EXACTLY the way the Orioles teams in the midst of the 12 year losing streak tried to do it. Cheap fixes and cast-offs aplenty.

So....unless they ante up now and fill the holes with quality, they SHOULD blow it up.

My problem is, I don't Duquette to be the one to make those trades....

[oriole]

I feel like sometimes there are players that have career years in Baltimore and we hold on to them when their value is highest.

We should have traded Johnson last year, and look what ended up happening. After Scotts big year a few years ago would have been a nice time to unload...no sir, not the O's!

The same thing is happening with Davis. Anyone else think he repeats last year? Absolutely not. There was plenty of decent first base options this winter that could have helped along with a hefty return for a big year by a good player. Morneau, Hart, Morrison, even a guy like Loney.

I will bet next off-season it's a consensus, "we should have traded Davis when his value was highest."