Are they joking? ESPN ranks Xander Bogaerts above JJ Hardy

[El Gordo]

According to Baseball Reference Jeter had 2 seasons between the ages of 22-29 where his RS weren't in the double digit minuses. And only one that could be described as adequate, +2 in 1998.

[El Gordo]

Found Desmond and Simmons to be even funnier. Wonder if Duke slides this story under JJ's nose when they seriously sit down and negotiate an extension???

Why? Simmons is Machado like at SS with a promising bat, and Desmond has almost as good an UZR and a better wOBA than Hardy.

[Can_of_corn]

Why? Simmons is Machado like at SS with a promising bat, and Desmond has almost as good an UZR and a better wOBA than Hardy.

I think Simmons is primed to explode with the bat. 17 HR with only 55 strikeouts in 658 PA (247 BABIP).

[Frobby]

Why? Simmons is Machado like at SS with a promising bat, and Desmond has almost as good an UZR and a better wOBA than Hardy.

I think Simmons is primed to explode with the bat. 17 HR with only 55 strikeouts in 658 PA (247 BABIP).

I think Manny has way more upside with the bat than Simmons. Simmons might become a .750ish guy. Manny has .800+ upside.

[Stotle]

According to Baseball Reference Jeter had 2 seasons between the ages of 22-29 where his RS weren't in the double digit minuses. And only one that could be described as adequate, +2 in 1998.

What was his total output worth, everything considered?

[Frobby]

Bogaerts ranked no. 7 in MLB, Hardy no. 9. http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/page/bbtn100_topSS/ranking-top-10-shortstops-mlb-2014

Look, I know Bogaerts is a highly regarded prospect, but it seems way premature to expect him to outperform Hardy in 2014. Am I delusional here?

No, I was not delusional. Hardy has been worth 3.5 rWAR this year and Bogaerts has been worth 0.3. Just watching the two of them play over the year, it's so obvious what a steadying influence Hardy is in the infield, and how erratic Bogaerts is. And that's the risk of going with some random young shortstop -- not that we have anyone in our system rated nearly as highly as Bogaerts (ranked the #2 prospect in MLB by BA, BP and MLB.com going into this season).

[Frobby]

Simmons is Machado like at SS with a promising bat.

I think Simmons is primed to explode with the bat. 17 HR with only 55 strikeouts in 658 PA (247 BABIP).

I think Manny has way more upside with the bat than Simmons. Simmons might become a .750ish guy. Manny has .800+ upside.

Simmons: .617 OPS so far in 2014. Manny: .755. Simmons' OPS has dropped each year he's been in the majors. He's in danger of becoming Brendan Ryan or Cesar Izturis.

[bpilktree]

No, I was not delusional. Hardy has been worth 3.5 rWAR this year and Bogaerts has been worth 0.3. Just watching the two of them play over the year, it's so obvious what a steadying influence Hardy is in the infield, and how erratic Bogaerts is. And that's the risk of going with some random young shortstop -- not that we have anyone in our system rated nearly as highly as Bogaerts (ranked the #2 prospect in MLB by BA, BP and MLB.com going into this season).

This is why i think people are jumping the gun with how much better the Red Sox will be next season. I believe many of their prospects are overhyped greatly by many outlets not just ESPN. Bogarts, Middlebrooks, Bradley JR. Bogarts has been the only one to do even ok.

[Can_of_corn]

Simmons: .617 OPS so far in 2014. Manny: .755. Simmons' OPS has dropped each year he's been in the majors. He's in danger of becoming Brendan Ryan or Cesar Izturis.

True. However the indicators I pointed out (low K rate, low BABIP, increasing HR) are generally pretty solid.

I'd be willing to take him off the Braves hands if they want to go into rebuild mode.

I don't think any of us said that Simmons' bat was better then Manny's.

[Frobby]

True. However the indicators I pointed out (low K rate, low BABIP, increasing HR) are generally pretty solid.

I'd be willing to take him off the Braves hands if they want to go into rebuild mode.

I don't think any of us said that Simmons' bat was better then Manny's.

Simmons and Manny would be a pretty unbelievable defensive combo. I do like Simmons, even though his bat has gotten weaker each year. Given the choice for the next three seasons, I'd take Simmons over Hardy, but I'm pretty sure I don't have that choice.

By the way, over the last 3 years, the 10 most valuable shortstops have been (by fWAR):

Ian Desmond (age 26-28)

Troy Tulowitzki (age 27-29)

Jhonny Peralta (age 30-32)

Hanley Ramirez (age 28-30)

Jimmy Rollins (age 33-35)

JJ Hardy (age 29-31)

Erik Aybar (age 28-30)

Jose Reyes (age 29-31)

Andrelton Simmons (age 22-24)

Alexei Ramirez (age 30-32)

Pretty tightly packed age range. Interestingly, if you look at 2009-11, a lot of the same names are there: Tulo, H. Ramirez, A. Ramirez, Reyes, Aybar and Rollins. The only guys who dropped off the list due to age were Jeter (who was 35-37 in 2009-11) and Scutaro (who was 33-35).

[weams]

No, I was not delusional. Hardy has been worth 3.5 rWAR this year and Bogaerts has been worth 0.3. Just watching the two of them play over the year, it's so obvious what a steadying influence Hardy is in the infield, and how erratic Bogaerts is. And that's the risk of going with some random young shortstop -- not that we have anyone in our system rated nearly as highly as Bogaerts (ranked the #2 prospect in MLB by BA, BP and MLB.com going into this season).

Very good points again.

[Crazysilver03]

This is why i think people are jumping the gun with how much better the Red Sox will be next season. I believe many of their prospects are overhyped greatly by many outlets not just ESPN. Bogarts, Middlebrooks, Bradley JR. Bogarts has been the only one to do even ok.

Their version of "The Calvary" has done nothing to suggest any of them are ready for long term roles in the majors. I am just happy that for now, the biggest thing they got out of the Dodgers trade was salary relief and not any long term pieces (as of yet).

[Morgan423]

Their version of "The Calvary" has done nothing to suggest any of them are ready for long term roles in the majors. I am just happy that for now, the biggest thing they got out of the Dodgers trade was salary relief and not any long term pieces (as of yet).

The salary relief was bad enough. Let's just say I'm not a Dodgers fan, primarily from that deal. If we were to face them in the WS and beat them... man, that would be sweet.