Bud Norris 2015

[sportsfan8703]

And to add on, being a FB/SL guy he has issues with left handed batters.

This is EXACTLY it. He's a AL reliever or an NL 4/5th starter. Put him in the pen and let's go with Gausman. We owe Norris nothing. Gausman is out of options for next year. He needs to be starting this year, in the O's rotation. Our best 12 man staff looks like

Gonzo

Ubaldo

Chen

Tillman

Gausman

Britton

O'day

Roe

Brach

Hunter

Matusz

Norris

DD fixed the OF. It's time for him to fix the pitching staff.

[El Gordo]

This is EXACTLY it. He's a AL reliever or an NL 4/5th starter. Put him in the pen and let's go with Gausman. We owe Norris nothing. Gausman is out of options for next year. He needs to be starting this year, in the O's rotation. Our best 12 man staff looks like

Gonzo

Ubaldo

Chen

Tillman

Gausman

Britton

O'day

Roe

Brach

Hunter

Matusz

Norris

DD fixed the OF. It's time for him to fix the pitching staff.

I wouldn't argue with this, but I expect they think they can rehabilitate Norris enough to trade him for something decent at the TD as a SP.

[sportsfan8703]

I wouldn't argue with this, but I expect they think they can rehabilitate Norris enough to trade him for something decent at the TD as a SP.

He's just a sunk cost. There's no need to to just write him in for 7-8 more starts till the trade deadline. We'll probably go 2-5, 2-6 in those games. I'd rather just cut bait. And there's something to the bats not being there for him. The players know that they are fighting an uphill battle. They're human. Plus Gausman is the future. Cut him loose. Norris could actually be really valuable to us the rest of the year if he can be a plus 6th/7th inning guy. That means we won't have to trade for one. At this point in the year we don't need trade value from him. We need production.

[Scrat1]

I wouldn't argue with this, but I expect they think they can rehabilitate Norris enough to trade him for something decent at the TD as a SP.

People keep speculating about these sorts of moves, but there's virtually no historical precedent for Baltimore to do this. If Norris is doing well enough to trade, then he's helping the team and they won't trade him. If he's not doing well enough to trade, no one will want him and they won't trade him. Teams in contention don't trade away players that are helping them win.

Our starting pitching has been inconsistent this year. If Norris turned it around, why would they trade him? Just to give Gausman a spot? What in their handling of Gausman this season makes you think that's a priority?

[Nevermore]

Norris did quite well until the 6th, and then he seemed to fall apart. After Davis's error, the passed ball (why wasn't it a wild pitch?) and his own error, he gave up hits, including the 3 run dinger to Ortiz. He simply blew up when it counted the most -- when things are going badly, that's the time to bear down, not blow up.

Put him in the pen for low-leverage situations. Gausman can take his place in the rotation. Or if it turns out that Tillman needs time in the pen to fix his mechanics, then DFA Norris.

[CA-ORIOLE]

Norris did quite well until the 6th, and then he seemed to fall apart. After Davis's error, the passed ball (why wasn't it a wild pitch?) and his own error, he gave up hits, including the 3 run dinger to Ortiz. He simply blew up when it counted the most -- when things are going badly, that's the time to bear down, not blow up..

Yeah, that was pretty clearly a passed ball by Joseph.

[Nevermore]

Yeah, that was pretty clearly a passed ball by Joseph.

I'm sure that you are correct about the passed ball. I was distracted at the time and didn't see it clearly. Still, afterward, Norris should have been bearing down, which he didn't

[Aristotelian]

He's just a sunk cost. There's no need to to just write him in for 7-8 more starts till the trade deadline. We'll probably go 2-5, 2-6 in those games. I'd rather just cut bait. And there's something to the bats not being there for him. The players know that they are fighting an uphill battle. They're human. Plus Gausman is the future. Cut him loose. Norris could actually be really valuable to us the rest of the year if he can be a plus 6th/7th inning guy. That means we won't have to trade for one. At this point in the year we don't need trade value from him. We need production.

Would you really rather see Tillman than Norris at this point? I have seen enough positive from Bud that I am willing to stick with him a bit. I have seen NOTHING positive from Tillman. I would rather them do something with Tillman (bullpen, DL) than Norris at this point. I do agree that we need to see what Gausman can do.

[Nevermore]

Would you really rather see Tillman than Norris at this point? I have seen enough positive from Bud that I am willing to stick with him a bit. I have seen NOTHING positive from Tillman. I would rather them do something with Tillman (bullpen, DL) than Norris at this point. I do agree that we need to see what Gausman can do.

Right now, I'd rather see Tillman. Tillman is struggling mightily, but at least he keeps trying and isn't blowing up when things go bad.

[mdbdotcom]

I wouldn't mind at all if they replaced TJ with Bud as the long man and added Gausman to the rotation.

[srock]

Bud Norris is a guy who gets though a lineup twice and gets a lot of K's. Then after that he gets hit. That's who he is. Today was a perfect example. If he didn't cost so much he'd be a great bullpen arm. But he doesn't go deep enough to be a decent SP.

Right now I agree with this. His numbers this season are abysmal. ERA+ is 58. in 49 innings pitched.

But right now I don't care about the cost. His money is a sunk cost vis-a-vis 2015 so its time to do what needs to be done. Bullpen, DFA, whatever. Ideally he goes to Norfolk for a month or two, but I'm not sure how that can be done contractually.

I can see no rational reason to keep giving him starts in Baltimore, he is just a mess right now.

[Aristotelian]

Right now, I'd rather see Tillman. Tillman is struggling mightily, but at least he keeps trying and isn't blowing up when things go bad.

They have both been pretty bad but I am more frustrated with Tillman. Seems like every time he is staked a lead he gives it back. I mean, 7-0 lead and he can't make it through two innings. I would say that is indeed "blowing up when things go bad." 4.5 BB/9 for Tillman vs 3.3 BB/9 for Bud. Bud''s ERA has steadily dropped, including 2.82 ERA in June. Tillman's ERA has been a flat line in the high fives and low sixes all year long, including a 6.98 ERA in June. There is no progression at all. I am seeing more to like in Bud at the moment.

I think Tillman is still good pitcher with a lot of good years left, but he is seriously out of whack and possibly hurt. Something needs to be done.

[glenn__davis]

I think Tillman is the better overall pitcher and will probably have a better career from this point on.

Right now I have more confidence in Norris, and it's not particularly close.

[Three Run Homer]

Bud''s ERA has steadily dropped, including 2.82 ERA in June.

This is a bit misleading considering that Bud's ERA last night was 0.00.

I don't want either Norris or Tillman in the rotation now. Let's give Tyler Wilson and Kevin Gausman a shot. Tillman can go to long relief if he's not hurt. Norris should go to the bullpen if Tillman goes to the DL, and should be traded/DFAd otherwise.

[O's are Legends]

This is a bit misleading considering that Bud's ERA last night was 0.00.

I don't want either Norris or Tillman in the rotation now. Let's give Tyler Wilson and Kevin Gausman a shot. Tillman can go to long relief if he's not hurt. Norris should go to the bullpen if Tillman goes to the DL, and should be traded/DFAd otherwise.

During this afternoon's broadcast (6/25) Palmer was ripping into Norris for unravelling in the 6th inning last night.