DFA Bud Norris...

[Stotle]

Okay, sorry for the wrong semantics. He had a decent year, a winning year. Let me try again.

Sure. :rolleyestf:

He wasn't arguing for releasing him -- he was arguing for parting ways via trade (I believe -- that's what it sounded like if you read through the thread convo).

[Nevermore]

He wasn't arguing for releasing him -- he was arguing for parting ways via trade (I believe -- that's what it sounded like if you read through the thread convo).

Here is what he said:

I would have cut him loose in November of 2014.

When someone says "cut him loose" that sounds (at least to me) as though the poster is advocating cutting him loose i.e. releasing him in November, 2014. As opposed to trading him. I was in favor of trading him, but apparently there were no takers, or at least any takers willing to trade for what DD wanted in return. So last spring, I was in favor of leaving him in the rotation. And it seemed that Buck and DD decided to do just that. Once it became apparent that Norris was going to be truly bad, Buck demoted him to the pen mainly for mop-up duty. That didn't work out, either, so DD designated him for assignment. I have no argument with that move, either.

[Stotle]

Here is what he said: When someone says "cut him loose" that sounds (at least to me) as though the poster is advocating cutting him loose i.e. releasing him in November, 2014. As opposed to trading him. I was in favor of trading him, but apparently there were no takers, or at least any takers willing to trade for what DD wanted in return. So last spring, I was in favor of leaving him in the rotation. And it seemed that Buck and DD decided to do just that. Once it became apparent that Norris was going to be truly bad, Buck demoted him to the pen mainly for mop-up duty. That didn't work out, either, so DD designated him for assignment. I have no argument with that move, either.

Thanks for explaining your thought process throughout the winter and first two-thirds of the season. I was looking to have the "DD/Buck played it right with Bud Norris" conversation with yet another poster.

[CA-ORIOLE]

I've given plenty of specifics on plenty of occasions. I don't think Duquette would summarily dismiss a $20MM annual contract. There is a vocal contingent on this board that does and will not allow for a discussion or presented argument that includes Baltimore making that sort of move.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure I've responded to them. Basically boils down to trading quality cost controled talent for prospects and acquiring high price/quality free agents allowing us to improve the farm system while not skipping a beat in competitiveness. I think a lot of that boils down to your belief that these deals are available and you (so why not Dan) has the ability to make these favorable deals, which may or may not even exist and/or may have made things worse. I'm just not really buying it. Like I've said before I'll defer to your knowledge about your perceived ability to make these deals as you're much more familiar and knowledgeable with prospects than me and maybe that's the issue i don't buy into. As I recall, when pressed to provide an example of this as a working strategy you came up with the A's and Josh Donaldson (a trade I think Beane did more for his own ego than anything else). Well, that looks pretty damn horrible right now.

I'm just looking at is as we won the division last year (and despite the complaints about dealing prospects and the farm system) i think we did it without major sell offs of the farm system. Every year is different but I expect see DD trying to "supplement the core" the best he can each year. I expect we'll almost have to make some sort of significant investment (or two) in free agency this year as opposed to trying to keep as much of the team together as possible last year.

I don't have an issue with you or anyone that wants to have a discussion without getting personal.

I'll take that to mean you don't have an issue with me then. If you do let me know.

[DrungoHazewood]

I'm just looking at is as we won the division last year (and despite the complaints about dealing prospects and the farm system) i think we did it without major sell offs of the farm system. Every year is different but I expect see DD trying to "supplement the core" the best he can each year. I expect we'll almost have to make some sort of significant investment (or two) in free agency this year as opposed to trying to keep as much of the team together as possible last year.

I think the failure is one of injuries, acquisition, and development, not overall strategies including trades for near-term talent. The O's farm system isn't below-average because they traded Nick Delmonico and LJ Hoes and Josh Hader. It's below average because of injuries and the failure to add enough talent from secondary (non-draft) sources. Some of that (big/moderate ticket international talent) comes back to lack of budget.

[Stotle]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure I've responded to them. Basically boils down to trading quality cost controled talent for prospects and acquiring high price/quality free agents allowing us to improve the farm system while not skipping a beat in competitiveness. I think a lot of that boils down to your belief that these deals are available and you (so why not Dan) has the ability to make these favorable deals, which may or may not even exist and/or may have made things worse. I'm just not really buying it. Like I've said before I'll defer to your knowledge about your perceived ability to make these deals as you're much more familiar and knowledgeable with prospects than me and maybe that's the issue i don't buy into. As I recall, when pressed to provide an example of this as a working strategy you came up with the A's and Josh Donaldson (a trade I think Beane did more for his own ego than anything else). Well, that looks pretty damn horrible right now.

I'm just looking at is as we won the division last year (and despite the complaints about dealing prospects and the farm system) i think we did it without major sell offs of the farm system. Every year is different but I expect see DD trying to "supplement the core" the best he can each year. I expect we'll almost have to make some sort of significant investment (or two) in free agency this year as opposed to trying to keep as much of the team together as possible last year.

I'll take that to mean you don't have an issue with me then. If you do let me know.

No issue with you. I'm fine disagreeing as to options the front office has available to it on the trade market. While not everything, Oakland's run differential tells a different story than its actual record. Maybe Beane did a horrible job. Maybe he was unlucky. If roles were reversed and Baltimore had a horrible record with a solid to good run differential I think folks who respect Duquette here on the board would certainly be giving him the benefit of the doubt and pointing to poor luck rather than stupid moves.

[Stotle]

I think the failure is one of injuries, acquisition, and development, not overall strategies including trades for near-term talent. The O's farm system isn't below-average because they traded Nick Delmonico and LJ Hoes and Josh Hader. It's below average because of injuries and the failure to add enough talent from secondary (non-draft) sources. Some of that (big/moderate ticket international talent) comes back to lack of budget.

And trading away draft picks and losing draft picks due to FA signings. Avoiding international signings is not a budget issue -- it's an allocation of resource issue. It isn't cost prohibitive; it's preference of cost allocation (and if you got Duquette in a sound proof room with promise nothing would ever leave that room, I believe he would tell you he would like to be in the international acquisition game).

Non-draft secondary sources are more important because traditional amateur allocation avenues have been limited in scope due to trades and certain FA signings.

[weams]

And trading away draft picks and losing draft picks due to FA signings. Avoiding international signings is not a budget issue -- it's an allocation of resource issue. It isn't cost prohibitive; it's preference of cost allocation (and if you got Duquette in a sound proof room with promise nothing would ever leave that room, I believe he would tell you he would like to be in the international acquisition game).

Non-draft secondary sources are more important because traditional amateur allocation avenues have been limited in scope due to trades and certain FA signings.

Andy MacPhail poisoned that well with the current ownership. They have much respect for Andy.

[Can_of_corn]

Andy MacPhail poisoned that well with the current ownership. They have much respect for Andy.

I wonder what the excuse was before Andy?

I think Andy told Angelos what he wanted to hear. Angelos doesn't like paying premium prices for unproven talent.

[weams]

I wonder what the excuse was before Andy?

I think Andy told Angelos what he wanted to hear. Angelos doesn't like paying premium prices for unproven talent.

They had academy's before Andy. It was just the folks they sent to the DR and the young Angelos sons, were not really spending their time evaluating talent. Well. Not that kind. Or so some folks have suggested.

[DrungoHazewood]

I wonder what the excuse was before Andy?

I think Andy told Angelos what he wanted to hear. Angelos doesn't like paying premium prices for unproven talent.

I think that's exactly it. Possibly the biggest failure of the 2000-10 era was that they refused to play the overspend for draftees and international talent game, and then they went and put caps in place. Imagine if they'd just gone all in on international talent around 1999 or 2000 when they still had OPACY at near capacity.

[OFFNY]

o

Norris was given his outright release:

Orioles Release Bud Norris

(By Steve Adams)

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2015/08/bud-norris-designated-orioles.html

[Going Underground]

o

Norris was given his outright release:

Orioles Release Bud Norris

(By Steve Adams)

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2015/08/bud-norris-designated-orioles.html

And Parmalee cleared waivers and was assigned to Norfolk I guess he could refuse.

[Crazysilver03]

And Parmalee cleared waivers and was assigned to Norfolk I guess he could refuse.

Amazing that he looked so bad in the majors that no one wanted to take a chance on him.

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[Rene88]

Amazing that he looked so bad in the majors that no one wanted to take a chance on him.

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I am completely shocked honestly. Agreed.

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