The Stinkin' Designated Hitter -- Revisited

[Migrant Redbird]

Like the O's, the Cardinals won their first game of the season last night, prolonging the Astro's hapless start to 0-4.

There were two big positives to last night's game.

Adam Wainwright picked up a win in his first major league start, going 7 innings and allowing just 5 hits and 1 run. I would have preferred that he not make 101 pitches in his first start, but he finished out the 7th inning strongly. A bigger concern is that he walked 3 while striking out only 4, but it was just the one game.

Left fielder Chris Duncan demonstrated that he shouldn't be kept out of the lineup against southpaws unless he needs a game off anyhow. In 4 at bats against southpaw Wandy Rodriguez and southpaw reliever Trever Miller, Chris stroked 1 home run and 2 doubles (although he was thrown out at 3rd trying to stretch one of them to a triple). Although Duncan was pulled for a defensive replacement late in the game, he's one of the few Cardinals outfielders who hasn't embarrassed himself with his defensive play -- so far!

But I got my greatest enjoyment out of Wainwright's first at bat. With So Taguchi on 1st, Adam showed bunt twice, but then swung away and lined an RBI double over the Astros center fielder's head. This was no accident; in his 8 major league at bats so far, Adam has a single, 2 doubles, and a home run. I know that it's a terribly small sample size, but Adam may turn out to be the best hitting pitcher the Cardinals have had in a long time -- on a team which has had a number of [relatively] good hitting pitchers.

Pitching out of the bullpen last season, Adam had only 6 at bats in his rookie year, but it's obvious that he can handle a bat.

My second greatest pleasure of the game was when Wainwright got into a little trouble in the 7th. Chris Burke doubled and the light hitting Everett singled him to 3rd. With nobody out, Phil Garner surprised the Cardinals by having Brad Ausmus attempt the squeeze. However, the bunt was right back towards the pitcher and Wainwright fielded it quickly and flipped the ball to Molina. Yadi tagged Burke trying to slide past him, then spun around to fire the ball to first for a perfect 1-2-3 double play.

Adam then made a nice fielding play on Mark Loretta's ground ball to end the inning and cap off an excellent debut as a major league starting pitcher. Box Score

This game illustrated the folly of two of my biggest peeves about baseball: The Stinkin' Designated Hitter and managers who place too much importance on pitcher/hitter matchups. The first rule likely would have relegated the great Babe Ruth to being a marginal candidate for the Hall of Fame, while the second keeps players from developing into well rounded hitters because they've been tagged as "platoon" players.

Oh, by the way, congratulations on a well pitched game by Adam Loewen. Not quite as impressive as Wainwright's night, but Wainwright didn't have to face a lineup populated primarily by all star hitters either. I might have watched Loewen's start if the Cardinals game hadn't been on at the same time. DirecTV blocked the Fox Sports Midwest broadcast, but they let me tune in to the Fox Sports Houston version -- the biggest drawback being the childish Astros announcers who persisted in showing each Houston hitter's photo with a ragged Bagwell style beard added on "Jeff Bagwell Night".

[YardBirds13]

Get out of here Migrant. Go back to your sissy NL ball where all anyone cares about is pitching and defense. We'll keep our ginormous home run mashers, you can have your David Eckstein's and pitchers making fools of themselves hitting. Long live the DH!!!

[The Wedge]

For every one pitcher that can actually put the stick on the ball, there are 50 others who couldn't hit water if they fell out of a boat.

However, your pitching/hitter matchups I can get on board with. It really seems to apply way more to late innings and relievers than to starters sometimes. If a starter can grind through the entire lineup, a reliever theoritically should. But they've been cultivated to think of themselves as specialists. Self fulfilling prophecies and all that.

[clapdiddy]

Get out of here Migrant. Go back to your sissy NL ball where all anyone cares about is pitching and defense. We'll keep our ginormous home run mashers, you can have your David Eckstein's and pitchers making fools of themselves hitting. Long live the DH!!!

Amen to that!

[tennOsfan]

I'm likely one of the few Os fans who will agree with Migrant Redbird. I thoroughly enjoy seeing a pitcher have success at the plate.

[66-70-83-??]

I'm likely one of the few Os fans who will agree with Migrant Redbird. I thoroughly enjoy seeing a pitcher have success at the plate.

I agree somewhat.

I could go either way on the DH.

But, if you held a gun to my head- utimately I would choose to scrap the DH.

I remember fondly- Palmer batting and after getting to first base- putting his jacket on to run the bases........ McNally's GRAND SLAM in the series...........,etc..... Whitey Herzog and all of his double switches.

It is a different game without the DH, but not an "inferior" one, imo.

[Migrant Redbird]

For every one pitcher that can actually put the stick on the ball, there are 50 others who couldn't hit water if they fell out of a boat.

That's a slight exaggeration. Along with the catchers that 1970 mentions, you have the light hitting, good glove shortstops and Orioles utility players such as David Newhan and Eric Byrnes.

You do have your Ryne Durens, whose eyesight was so bad that hitters trembled to stand in the box against his heater, but you also have quite a few pitchers who take pride in being athletes and not just pitchers.

Most pitchers recall when they were the best hitters on their high school or little league teams. I seem to recall that Mike Mussina had his own set of bats, just for those few opportunities each season when he got to pitch in a National League park. The biggest problem is that proliferation of the DH throughout the amateur and minor leagues has resulted in pitchers losing the opportunity to maintain and develop their hitting skills.

Even Ryne Duren, who was infamously inept at the plate, still managed to hit .061 with 7 hits in 114 at bats over his 11 season career. Duren got so few at bats because he worked mostly out of the bullpen and only started 32 major league games in his life.

If pitchers take pride in their hitting skills and have the opportunity to exercise them, they're not that much worse than the typical #8 or #9 hitter around either league. (Obviously, I'm not talking about #8 hitters like Robinson Cano, but few teams have the luxury of putting a .345 hitter that far down in their lineup.)

The first thing to keep in mind when looking at pitchers' hitting statistics is that we're always looking at small sample sizes. Even in the National League, few pitchers get more than 2-3 at bats per game, and that only every 5th day. Even everyday players like the afore mentioned Cano can have monthly splits where their OPS varies by as much as 400 points. For a pitcher that May 2006, when Cano's OPS dipped to .641 in 116 plate appearances, is equivalent to a full season. The late and little lamented Jason Marquis hit .292 in 2004 and .310 in 2005, but plummeted to .179 in 2006. In 2005, Marquis managed only 91 total plate appearances, and 9 of those were as a pinch hitter.

Which is why you need to look at a pitcher's entire career to assess their hitting. "Good hitting pitchers" like Don Drysdale and Bob Gibson would occasionally manage to put up an OPS in the .700 - .800 range, or even as much as .852 in Drysdale's case, but they still ended up with career batting lines like .206/.243/.301/.544 (Gibson) and .186/.228/.295/.568 (Drysdale).

What most AL fans don't realize they're missing is the raw exhilaration a fan gets when his pitcher does come through at the plate. Friday night, Adam Wainwright was in a typical bunting situation -- nobody out and a runner on first -- and he even stuck the bat out and showed bunt a couple times. But on the 3rd pitch, Adam stroked one over the center fielder's head, to that stupid hill in Minute Maid park, which would probably have been a home run in most AL ballparks.

Yeah, Brian Fahey or Freddie Bynum on the O's might have hit the ball like that too -- once in a blue moon -- but it wouldn't have generated the excitement which an NL fan gets when his pitcher comes through with the bat.

To me, the DH is a corruption of a majestic game, because it puts 2 part time players on the baseball field. Baseball isn't like football and basketball, where players can be substituted in and out the whole game long. In baseball, if one player hits or runs for another, the first player should be lost for the remainder of the game. The slight benefit of seeing a few rallies remain alive hardly compensates for the advantage of having pitchers take their swings and run the bases (taking a little bit out of their legs when they do). It also doesn't compensate for allowing teams to gain the offensive contributions of players like Mo Vaughn and Jason Giambi without having to accept their defensive liabilities along with it.

[66-70-83-??]

To me, the DH is a corruption of a majestic game, because it puts 2 part time players on the baseball field.

I have fought the "good fight" here several times.

Most here are fervent DH supporters.

I have grown use to the DH.

If I was made King for a day- I would do away with the DH.

While I am on the soapbox- I would also eliminate interleague play, contract several teams, eliminate the wildcard and go back to 2 divisions in each league- no more rewards for 2nd place.

I would also mandate that each team schedule a few Doubleheaders (not the "day-night" ones)

I would also mandate all post season games start no later than 6:00 pm so that the youngest fans can watch them.

I would order each team to donate 2000 seats to little league programs for EVERY home game.

But, I would keep night-time baseball at Wrigley.

[tennOsfan]

Actually, Orioles fans have the best of both worlds. (So to speak.)

We get to watch a lineup with the beloved DH position filled, but yet have to watch a catcher (whether it be Bako or Castillo) who hits like a pitcher.

Well, I guess today you got a taste of the excitement of when your pitcher does something good, didn't you?

[DrungoHazewood]

I've said this many times, but I'm in favor of the DH in modern baseball because pitchers are literally orders of magnitude worse hitters than anyone else on the roster. An average shortstop or catcher in the majors is maybe 5% worse than an average major league player. An average pitcher is 60% worse. An average hitting major league pitcher is about the same offensive skill level as a typical 17-year-old batter in the Gulf Coast League. Every other position is within +/- 8% or so of the league OPS. Pitchers are -60% and falling over time.

It won't get any better because the main reason for it is that pitching and hitting are very difficult things, and as baseball has gotten harder over time it has become increasingly difficult to thrive at both. We've reached a point where it's essentially impossible. The very best two-way players like Brooks Keishnick are adequate platoon outfielders crossed with 30-inning LOOGYs - about as far from Babe Ruth as is imaginable.

The DH is a unique position that only need be applied to a very unique case of one position that is just light years off the scale. So don't even try to give me that absurd argument that the DH is a slippery slope, and before long we'll have teams of Cecil Fielders DHing for every below-average middle infielder.

I just find no beauty, or symmetry, or anything else in watching a .096 hitter getting fanned on three BP fastballs. I see nothing inherently just and right about intentionally walking Chris Gomez with two on and two out to get to your pitcher with a .283 OPS. And I see nothing wonderful about a high school-skilled hitter trying to bunt a runner over in the major leagues, as a desperation tactic to avoid a plain old unproductive out. The double switch and the push-button automatic pinch hitting for the pitcher in the NL are less rocket science than managing by a 100-year-old book that monkeys could follow.

The only possible way you'd convince me to dislike the DH would be if Sam Perlozzo would agree to keep a real major league bench to be able to pinch hit for the pitcher. Just by mistake he might occasionally use it to hit for the other guys on the roster, and that might convince him that offensive substitutions aren't blasphemy.

[Lt Melmo]

I remember fondly- Bako batting and after getting to first base- putting his jacket on to run the bases........ Bako's GRAND SLAM in the series...........,etc.....

Actually enjoying pitchers hitting the ball because they're not expected to is akin to enjoying replacement players hitting the ball because they're not expected to. And you know, I did definitely enjoy Bako's homer today. But if he was replaced with a backup catcher who was merely average offensively, I'd probably enjoy the game a lot more. Jim Palmer still had a .415 OPS for his career. When someone is that bad but still has to play because their position warrants it, the good times tend to shine through because the bad ones are expected. But I'm pretty certain there were a LOT more situations in which Palmer killed rallies than situations where he kept them going. And that probably didn't maximize the fun factor when it happened.

[66-70-83-??]

Actually enjoying pitchers hitting the ball because they're not expected to is akin to enjoying replacement players hitting the ball because they're not expected to. And you know, I did definitely enjoy Bako's homer today. But if he was replaced with a backup catcher who was merely average offensively, I'd probably enjoy the game a lot more. Jim Palmer still had a .415 OPS for his career. When someone is that bad but still has to play because their position warrants it, the good times tend to shine through because the bad ones are expected. But I'm pretty certain there were a LOT more situations in which Palmer killed rallies than situations where he kept them going. And that probably didn't maximize the fun factor when it happened.

Then, let's do it.

One DH for the pitcher, one for a bad hitter such as a backup catcher like Bako.

If one DH is great, than two is even better.

Lets go one step better: just allow a manager to bat his 9 best hitters and field his 9 best fielders.

There are always going to be bad hitters.

The DH takes a lot of strategy out of the AL managers job. He no longer has to decide whether or not to remove his pitcher for a short term offensive boost from a PH. He doesn't have to decide whether or not to insert the PH in the field and move the new pitcher in the order, etc....

It is a different game without the DH. Less strategic decisions.

I know most pitchers can't hit, but that is just part of the game. Many DH's can't field- so they aren't "complete" players either.

[DrungoHazewood]

Then, let's do it.

One DH for the pitcher, one for a bad hitter such as a backup catcher like Bako.

If one DH is great, than two is even better.

Lets go one step better: just allow a manager to bat his 9 best hitters and field his 9 best fielders.

There are always going to be bad hitters.

The DH takes a lot of strategy out of the AL managers job. He no longer has to decide whether or not to remove his pitcher for a short term offensive boost from a PH. He doesn't have to decide whether or not to insert the PH in the field and move the new pitcher in the order, etc....

It is a different game without the DH. Less strategic decisions.

I know most pitchers can't hit, but that is just part of the game. Many DH's can't field- so they aren't "complete" players either.

That's a silly argument. Paul Bako would be an absolutely wonderful hitter for a pitcher. He'd probably have won several silver sluggers if he was a pitcher.

The DH is necessary because pitchers are ten times worse than even backup catchers when they're at bat. No other position is anywhere close to that. Bako's career OPS is .629. You know how many active pitchers have .600+ OPSes (in 200 or more PAs)? None! Dontrelle Willis is the active leader at .591.

When the best hitter at a position is worse than Paul Bako, it's time to fix something. Thank goodness the AL had the guts to do that 34 years ago.

Also, most DHs can field. At least to some minimal level of competence. The O's DHs are Millar, Gibbons, Huff... all of them are halfway decent fielders. Zero pitchers are competent hitters. In all of history I'd bet there's never been a roster decison made on the basis of a pitcher's hitting. There are pitchers like Aaron Harang (.123 career OPS in 241 PAs) who'd have flunked out of the Appy League with their bats, but stick around because they're pitchers. Harang is 15-for-241 with one walk, one double, and 122 Ks, yet I'd bet none of his GMs or managers ever even thought about cutting him because he can't hit.

It's a joke that one league lets a spectacle worthy of an 8-year-old pass as a major league performance.

[DrungoHazewood]

As far as strategy goes, the AL has a choice. The NL has obvious moves. The AL has the choice between letting someone hit, or getting a better matchup. Between bunting and swinging away. Between hitting-and-running, or going for a base hit.

The NL has "well, of course I'm going to bunt. I have a .078 hitter up with a runner on and one out. Duh." The NL has pulling the pitcher for a pinch hitter because you're down three runs in the 6th and Freddy Bynum has an OPS 300 points higher than the pitcher... it ain't rocket science.

The AL has the choice between going with a 13-man staff, a 12-man staff, or a 11-man staff with more bench players. The NL has a minimum requirement for a certain number of bench players because you have to be able to hit for your .125-hitting pitchers several times a game, every game. No choice at all. NL teams also are locked into a certain configuration because they have to have more fielders to double switch, again to avoid having a guy with a .280 OPS coming up in the key moments of a game. The AL really does have a choice as to who is on the bench. I may not agree with Perlozzo's bench of a backup catcher and the two dwarves, but at least he has the option of doing that. In the NL he'd essentially be locked into something else.

If the act of making moves is strategy, then the NL has it. If managers making choices about which moves to make is strategy, the AL has it in spades.

[Migrant Redbird]

That's a silly argument.

You don't have a lot of room for calling other folks' comments silly.

It's a joke that one league lets a spectacle worthy of an 8-year-old pass as a major league performance.

It's a joke that some teams use players like David Newhan as their DH. How long has it been since the O's had a regular DH worthy of the title? The best thing about the DH is that it allows hitters like Tejada to take a day off without breaking their consecutive games streak.

Weren't you one of those arguing how ridiculous it was that Palmeiro won the GG at 1st base with only 29 games played at the position? Eliminate the DH and you wouldn't have that situation -- either Palmeiro is healthy enough to play 1st or he goes on the DL.

66-70-83-?? has a valid point. If it's OK to tarnish the integrity of the game by allowing teams to garner the benefit of a great pitcher's contribution on the mound without accepting the penalty of his ineptitude at the plate, then it should be OK to garner the benefits of a great defensive catcher or shortstop without accepting the penalty that he couldn't hit his way out of a wet paper bag.

The AL doesn't really gain that much in return for their corruption of the game with the DH. The average AL team averages 4.96 runs per game, while the average NL team averages 4.76 runs per game. 4 of the top 10 run scoring teams last year were NL teams (despite the alleged superiority of the AL lately) while 2 of the bottom 10 were AL teams (with the Devil Rays ranking 30th). Is 0.2 runs per game worth turning the game upside down and ensuring that the next Babe Ruth gets his hitting stunted early because all the minor leagues use the DH?

The DH is necessary because pitchers are ten times worse than even backup catchers when they're at bat.

....pitchers are literally orders of magnitude worse hitters than anyone else on the roster.

For someone who's so adept with statistics, you use them very carelessly.

I have to shut this laptop down and get to my meeting, or I'd address your arguments in more depth.