What would make Ichiro a HOFer

[Jagwar]

Before this season, he had 1592 hits in seven full seasons (that is just sick), was a lifetime .332 hitter, a career OPS of .813, perennial gold glover, averaging almost 40 SB a season.

For anyone else who had only played 7 seasons, I think it would be premature to post something like this. But at 35 years old, having come into the league at 28, what would it take for Ichiro to make it into the HOF if he played five more years?

Would 2500 hits, 475 stolen bases, and another few gold gloves do it?

[Moose Milligan]

I think he's almost already there.

I really don't have much of an argument for Ichiro here...but consider the fact that he joined the MLB after a considerable amount of time in Japan....IMO, the Koufax rule applies here. A player making a significant impact on the game in a short amount of time due to circumstance (In Koufax's career it was shortened due to injury, Ichiro played overseas...)

He just needs another couple of seasons of his current production...He keeps fantastic care of himself and I don't see him tailing off anytime soon.

IMO, he's a HOFer if he retired today. I know I might get some flak for this, but you can't hold it against the guy for playing professionaly in Japan first.

[Jagwar]

IMO, he's a HOFer if he retired today. I know I might get some flak for this, but you can't hold it against the guy for playing professionaly in Japan first.

If it were 10 seasons at this production, I might agree with you. But 7 might not be a slam dunk.

Just imagine if he had come in to the league at 22-23. He might have had 3000 hits by the age of 35

[Lucky Jim]

I think he's most assuredly already in. I also think he's wildly overrated. So, you know, there's that.

[RShack]

I think he's already in.

[oriole_way]

Interesting question.

Does the baseball HOF take Japan stats into account?

For example, Warren Moon got into the pro football HOF partly based upon his accomplishments in the CFL.

[orayole]

If he doesn't fall on his face the rest of the way, he's in.

[Avsfan]

In now, but probably doesn't deserve to be....# of hits is the most useless criteria ever

[scOtt]

Time.

Period.

He was a legend in Japan. Then came over here and broke the record for hits. In a season. And GUNNED that guy out at third from RF... I still think about that amazing play.

Just the guy's batting stance... DARING the pitcher to throw it... he just just SCREAMS hofer. Like Sadaharu Oh. He's just the force from Japan that can't be ignored.

[DrungoHazewood]

Interesting question.

Does the baseball HOF take Japan stats into account?

For example, Warren Moon got into the pro football HOF partly based upon his accomplishments in the CFL.

Technically, no. It is the National Baseball Hall of Fame and Museum. For example, there has been talk of Sadaharu Oh being inducted, but that's always been quickly quashed because he never played in the US majors. Nobody who spent a majority of their career in the US minors was ever elected. Great players and managers from college, or the Olympics, or modern Cubans don't get considered.

But there are "Negro Leaguers" who spent a lot of time in Mexico who are in the Hall. For example, Martin Dihigo.

I think what it comes down to is that the Hall changes their voting standards at the drop of a hat, and if Ichiro is popular enough he'll get voted in. Even if that means he doesn't exactly meet standards with his US accomplishments he'll get in when they wink and nod and give him some extra credit for being a HOF-caliber player for years before he got the chance to use that ability in the US majors.

I also think that in 50 years the US majors will not have so tight a grip on world baseball, and that leagues from other countries and players who play there will either force their way into Cooperstown, or Cooperstown will explicitly exclude them and the Hall will become a little less relevant.

[DREKTUNES]

I think he's most assuredly already in. I also think he's wildly overrated. So, you know, there's that.

Agreed that he's pretty much in. Curious as to why you think he's overrated. I don't pretend to have a strong grasp on stats and such, so I'm not looking for a webfight. I am just continually amazed at how often he can put the ball in play.

Scary thought - was listening to an interview with a Seattle beat writer a while back, and according to him, Ichiro has lost a step or two in the last few years. So this is the slower version. Jeez.

[DrungoHazewood]

Agreed that he's pretty much in. Curious as to why you think he's overrated. I don't pretend to have a strong grasp on stats and such, so I'm not looking for a webfight. I am just continually amazed at how often he can put the ball in play.

Scary thought - was listening to an interview with a Seattle beat writer a while back, and according to him, Ichiro has lost a step or two in the last few years. So this is the slower version. Jeez.

Because he rarely walks and rarely hits anything but a single. Especially when he first came up people were calling him the best player in baseball, but that's nearly impossible when you don't play a key defensive position and you slug .440. He's also overrated because he gets 200+ hits a year, partly because he bats leadoff 160 games a season and has more at bats than almost anyone else because he doesn't walk. He is the 2008 version of Wee Willie Keeler - and while Keeler is a legitimate HOFer, he's not quite as good as his .424 average in 1897 and his legends might suggest.

He is a fine defender (although he's a little stretched in center), and a good baserunner, and he plays every day. The whole package is very good. Just not quite as good as the Ichiro! disciples might have you think.

[Winning_Season]

Because he rarely walks and rarely hits anything but a single. Especially when he first came up people were calling him the best player in baseball, but that's nearly impossible when you don't play a key defensive position and you slug .440. He's also overrated because he gets 200+ hits a year, partly because he bats leadoff 160 games a season and has more at bats than almost anyone else because he doesn't walk. He is the 2008 version of Wee Willie Keeler - and while Keeler is a legitimate HOFer, he's not quite as good as his .424 average in 1897 and his legends might suggest.

He is a fine defender (although he's a little stretched in center), and a good baserunner, and he plays every day. The whole package is very good. Just not quite as good as the Ichiro! disciples might have you think.

How is CF not a key defensive position, CF (along with shortstop) is arguably the second most important defensive position after catcher

[The Wedge]

I know I might get some flak for this/QUOTE]

Why, is Chollie Eckman back?

[orayole]

In 30 years when people look back on this age of baseball will people mention Ichiro as one of the best? I think they will. And I think that's enough to get into the HOF.