Getting rid of Chris Davis

[Frobby]

50 minutes ago, ChuckS said:

I'm not a betting man.  But if I was, I would bet the bank on DD landing another front office job as soon as he leaves here.  Winning more games than any team in baseball over a five year period won't be overlooked despite his faults. 

More games than any team in the AL, not in baseball.    I believe three NL teams won more.

[Il BuonO]

On 5/31/2017 at 2:27 PM, Frobby said:

Well, undoubtedly he's in a slump. 11 games ago his OPS stood at .910.    Over the last 11 games it's .316 and he's struck out an ungodly 25 times.     He will snap out of it at some point.   

What's troubling to me is his increasing propensity for watching called strike threes go by, which then makes it all the more infuriating when he swings at a bad pitch.    It really feels like he's guessing out there.   

Ted Williams was a guess hitter (I like to say thinking along with the pitcher), but he was GOOD at it.

[Frobby]

2 minutes ago, Il BuonO said:

Ted Williams was a guess hitter (I like to say thinking along with the pitcher), but he was GOOD at it.

Ted Williams was a situational hitter, and a disciplined one.    Before two strikes, he looked for a pitch in his happy zone, and if he didn't get it, he wouldn't swing, even if the pitch was a strike.     Very few hitters are disciplined enough to do that; most will swing at anything they think is a strike.    But with two strikes, Williams swung the bat if he needed to.   He never struck out more than 64 times in a season, and that was as a 20-year old rookie.   He only had two other seasons over 50, also early in his career.

[Il BuonO]

4 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Ted Williams was a situational hitter, and a disciplined one.    Before two strikes, he looked for a pitch in his happy zone, and if he didn't get it, he wouldn't swing, even if the pitch was a strike.     Very few hitters are disciplined enough to do that; most will swing at anything they think is a strike.    But with two strikes, Williams swung the bat if he needed to.   He never struck out more than 64 times in a season, and that was as a 20-year old rookie.   He only had two other seasons over 50, also early in his career.

It's probably a better definition of what he truly was, but he himself said he guessed or anticipated pitches.

Teddy's thoughts on "Guessing"
Guessing, or anticipating, is about being more observant. Most hitters are scared to death of guessing pitches, and most coaches will urge you not to. The reason is simple, "what if I guess wrong and look horrible?"

I didn't get this concept until my Senior year at Fresno State, and once I got the hang of it, the better my offensive numbers got. If I had the knowledge early on and was able to develop the skill, then God only knows where I'd be. This is what separates exceptional Major Leaguers from "the rest." Here's the plate discipline plan to success article we did on Swing Smarter I learned my last year at State (Sorry, this is unavailable now, unless you sign up for The Dugout Newsletter).

Which brings me to another point, TW says proper thinking is 50% of hitting (remember Ted's 3 Golden Rules?).

Most of the best hitters in the Big Leagues "anticipate" pitches, they look for certain pitches in certain locations based on information given to them in scouting reports and their own history with a particular pitcher.

If a pitcher throws fastballs and curve-balls but can't get his curve-ball over the plate, then we'd be silly to look for the curve-ball...you see, the pitcher eliminated the pitch for you, so now you can sit 100% dead red.  It's about reducing risk, so we're less likely to anticipate wrong.

[OFFNY]

2 hours ago, webbrick2010 said:

 

Great a 161 million dollar defensive specialist first baseman.

Worst Oriole contract ever, one of the worst in baseball history, and what is the name of the GM who signed off on it. That alone will keep DD from ever getting another job after he thankfully leaves the O's

 

o

 

And one that you advocated for in October of 2015, going so far as to suggest trading Adam Jones in order to free up payroll money to assist in the financing of signing of Davis.

You are in the glassiest of houses, yet you continue to throw stones in regard to the Davis contract.

 

 

 

 

[Tx Oriole]

2 hours ago, webbrick2010 said:

Great a 161 million dollar defensive specialist first baseman.

Worst Oriole contract ever, one of the worst in baseball history, and what is the name of the GM who signed off on it. That alone will keep DD from ever getting another job after he thankfully leaves the O's

What are the O's supposed to do with Davis? It's a bad deal. But the owner wanted him. So they have to play him. Mancini is better in the OF and Davis is better at 1st. I am not saying I like the deal. I don't. 

 

[Frobby]

17 minutes ago, OFFNY said:

o

 

And one that you advocated for in October of 2015, going so far as to suggest trading Adam Jones in order to free up payroll money to assist in the financing of signing of Davis.

You are in the glassiest of houses, yet you continue to throw stones in regard to the Davis contract.

 

 

 

 

True, but being in favor of sigining Davis is different from advocating 7/$161 mm.    Take a look at this poll, where webbrick2010 voted that he was absolutely against it:  

I voted "worried."    For the record, 58% were in favor, either strongly or mildly.   

[Tx Oriole]

On 5/31/2017 at 9:45 AM, webbrick2010 said:

He hasn't already?.... Well yes I think soon he will be negative, certainly by 2019 at which time we can DFA him and eat 69 million. I'd move him as soon as possible for as much as possible and move on

The owner will never do that. 

[OFFNY]

37 minutes ago, Frobby said:

 

True, but being in favor of sigining Davis is different from advocating 7/$161 mm.    Take a look at this poll, where webbrick2010 voted that he was absolutely against it:  

 

 

I voted "worried."    For the record, 58% were in favor, either strongly or mildly.   
 

o

 

He advocated trading one player to free up money for the Davis contract. So while he did not say specifically and precisely how much money he would be OK with giving Davis, the fact that he was in favor of trading somebody in order to free up money for Davis would suggest that he wanted to keep Davis, and at a considerable cost.

 

Also, webbrick being webbrick, his habit/agenda of always criticizing the Orioles at every possible chance may have been at least part of the reason why he voted that he absolutely hated it. Saying that he wanted to trade another player to free up money to sign Davis, and then turning around and voting that it was "absolutely terrible, completely against the contract" isn't particularly consistent. 

 

o

[Roll Tide]

On 5/31/2017 at 8:27 AM, webbrick2010 said:

How much would it take from another team for YOU to think that we should dump CD.

I figure on the open market he could get at most a 3/30 type deal

So if a team offered 30 million for Chris Davis would you take it, leaving the O's on the hook for 70 million?

How much would it take to dump CD and forget that the O's ever signed that disastrous contract.

 

This will never happen under Angelos. You've wasted your time writing it!

[Roll Tide]

9 minutes ago, OFFNY said:

o

 

He advocated trading one player to free up money for the Davis contract. So while he did not say specifically and precisely how much money he would be OK with giving Davis, the fact that he was in favor of trading somebody in order to free up money for Davis would suggest that he wanted to keep Davis, and at a considerable cost.

 

Also, webbrick being webbrick, his habit/agenda of always criticizing the Orioles at every possible chance may have been at least part of the reason why he voted that he absolutely hated it. Saying that he wanted to trade another player to free up money to sign Davis, and then turning around and voting that he "absolutely hated" the contract isn't particularly consistent. 

 

o

I was in the do it but a little worried! I actually regret it and have no qualms with being completely wrong.

[OFFNY]

15 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

 

I was in the do it, but a little worried! I actually regret it, and have no qualms with being completely wrong.

 

o

 

Even though I did not vote in that poll, I wanted to keep Davis, and was glad that the Orioles signed him when they did.

I was hoping for perhaps a year less than we signed him for (something like 6 years for somewhere between $130 to $140 Million), but I was very happy that we kept him, particularly because of the fact fact that he is/was good on defense. 

 

o

[Roll Tide]

3 minutes ago, OFFNY said:

o

 

Even though I did not vote in that poll, I wanted to keep Davis, and was glad that the Orioles signed him when they did.

I was hoping for perhaps a year less than we signed him for (something like 6 years for somewhere between $130 to $140 Million), but I was very happy that we kept him, particularly because of the fact fact that he is/was good on defense. 

 

o

Problem for me is that he's changed drastically at the plate imo. And that been for the bad. If you could get him to be selective early and protect with two strikes his problem could be corrected. I doubt he's listened no to anyone.

[Il BuonO]

Ugh, signing Davis was a bad idea then and it's slowly being proved true. 

I forget the poster who profiled Davis, but he was dead on. He'll only continue to decline and he's decidedly a three true outcome player.

And none of this highlights the absolutely awful negotiations where the Orioles paid top dollar bidding against no other team.

 

[wildbillhiccup]

This thread might as well have been called "Ending World Hunger". There's a better chance of that happening than the O's getting rid of Davis.