Stand Pat!

[Oriole4Life]

I used to be like you, Peace21. I actually thought we had a good team, and had visions of the playoffs. Then I realized that we aren't that good of a team at all.

You have to realize that players such as Huff and Sherrill are some of the few players that will actually net us good prospects in a trade. They are also of the few that teams actually want. I love Huff, he's a baller. But look, he'll be 32 in December. Is he going to help us to a playoff run next year or the year after that? Probably not. We could also get rid of his $8,000,000 a year salary. Sherrill, is he as good as some people think he is? I say no, he's been shaky all year and has blown 6 saves. Trade him now while his value is high. Closers are replaceable. It would be great if we could just flip Ramon Hernandez to the Marlins for Ryan Tucker and Matt Dominguez, but that's a dream.

[mweb]

You're putting an awful lot of words in a an awful lot of people's mouths here.

The point is do we trade Sherrill if we get a great return? Nothing to do with deadline deals. Could happen this winter for all I care.

I think we pull the trigger if we get the right return. Do you? Simple question.

That's what he does best. He struggles to argue against what people actually believe in, so he greatly exaggerates it.

[mweb]

Milt Pappas was not traded at the deadline.

It was in the off-season, which is the time of year when the vast, overwhelming majority of important personnel moves are made.

Yet I believe you didn't favor trading a bunch of vets in the off-season either, and probably won't this coming off-season. So what's your point? Is it better to deal guys in the off-season? It may be for some, may not be for others, just depends on the offers. Sherill most likely has the most value now, and the market for pitchers, especially relievers, is usually better now than in the off-season. I would like to see him dealt this month, but I'm fine with holding onto the others til the off-season or beyond in some cases depending on the offers.

[mweb]

Does rshack ever actually post anything baseball related? It seems his thing is making up a ridiculous position that the other side isn't actually taking, then needlessly attacking that imaginary position and finally patting himself on the back after showing the rest of us how much better he is than the rest of us (only in his own mind, I'd assume). No one wants to make trades just for the sake of making trades. People want to make trades for the sake of making this team better in the future. It doesn't matter if these trades occur at the deadline (gasp!), in the offseason, at MacPhail's Christmas party, over Thanksgiving dinner or at the GM meetings, etc. On a rebuilding team, trading older players with value for a greater number of talented, young players is a very smart thing to do. All of us want to see the O'd do well long term and over the next 11 days, we have a chance to make further progress in that direction by trading guys like Huff, Sherrill, Bradford, maybe even Cabrera and Roberts. If a deal is there that will be beneficial to our team in the long term, we should make it.

Ding Ding Ding...We have a winner!

It's apparently a very popular approach though.

[The Rick]

It's what you call a level-headed response... it probably has nothing whatsoever to do with the fact that I was commenting about how ugly people were getting just because somebody (in this case, Peace) dared to question the supposedly-great importance of making "deadline deals".

False, but again you miss the point. Shocking.

The OP never said anything about not making deadline deals. It said keep these guys around period.

It's odd, all those posts and no one knows what your plan would be if you were the GM.

[Hank Scorpio]

Ok, well AM better get a big return for him.

If he doesn't, he won't trade him.

Have faith, Peace!!! For the first time in about 9 years, I have relative confidence in the man running this team.

[Hank Scorpio]

I think it's pretty funny that Peace is getting lambasted because he doesn't think that making a bunch of "deadline deals" is the key to rebuilding the franchise.

Does anybody happen to know how many crucial "deadline deals" played huge roles in building the O's into the best franchise in baseball, back when AM's daddy did it the first time? Can anybody tell me all the franchises that were rebuilt from top to bottom, from crappy franchises into consistent long-term contenders, based on a year's worth of "deadline deals"?

I didn't think so.

But, why let the facts of baseball history interfere? Continue with the stunned outrage. Continue with the message board fantasy that says we can best attract a quality FA or two by trading the most solid players we have for "prospects". (Yep, that'll help us contend by 2010. Sure it will.) Continue to believe that "deadline deals" are when teams substantially shape their future. And, while you're doing that, you can get outraged at anybody who points out that making a huge thing out of "deadline deals" is mainly a lot of message board baloney. However, as the deadline gets nearer and nearer, I expect the frenzy to mount, until it reaches near-hysteria. For some people, if AM fails to make a big "deadline deal" splash, it may even be a sign of being irresponsible and somehow failing to rebuild. In fact, if he doesn't make a big one, I betcha we'll see multiple threads on that very theme. And those threads will be just fine. But somehow challenging the whole "deadline deal mania" isn't. That's very curious, if you ask me...

But, carry on with your harpooning of Peace about it...

"Back in myyyyyyyyyyyyyy dayyyyyyyyyyyyyy...."

Come on, RShack. You know better than this... we have valuable pieces that won't likely be around in 2010-2011, when it might matter. The intelligent thing to do with guys like Huff and Sherrill is obvious, assuming AM can get sufficient return. I highly doubt he'll make the deal otherwise.

If he does, yes, this year's team will miss them. Again, it's not about this year.

Will Teixeira pass up $150M and a chance to play at home because we traded Aubrey Huff and George Sherrill? Maybe. Even if he does, the answer for this organization lies in the pitching. I won't be jumping off of any bridges if Teixeira goes elsewhere, but I doubt he will irrespective of who Aubrey Huff and George Sherrill are playing for.

[Fan4Life]

Totally agree. I don't think we'd get a good enough offer to deal Scott, so keep him. Brob, DC and Guthrie are all tough calls imo, just like everyone else, depends on the offer, but I'm on the fence with these guys based on the offers I'd expect. Huff should be dealt either this month or the offseason imo. Sherrill should be dealt this month.

Huff is only signed through next year, a year that we are very unlikely to contend, and we should not pay him a lot of money for his age 33-36 seasons. Sherrill is good and club controlled for a long time, but his value is artificially high due to the saves, so we can get back more than what he's worth to us.

At the risk of speaking for the majority of this board.. I believe this is where 80% or higher of the HO'ers are. I don't think there are many of us who would pass up a deal for any of the guys in question if the deal is just to good to pass up. Obviously that connotation is different for different players. I really have no interest in trading BRob, but I could be talked into it...

[wildcard]

Stand Pat implies that MacPhail has changed his philosophy. I doubt that he has. However I don't think he will make a big deal at the deadline because 4 or 5 for 1 deals are hard to make. So I think Sherrill, Huff and Roberts stay.

Miggy and Bedard have done MacPhail no favors. They both are having bad years. Miggy has hit poorly in June and July. Bedard was the poster child for getting his GM fired even if he was not the only reason. This makes MacPhail's 5 for 1 harder to do.

This off season I think AM will try again to make the meg deal but will not have much luck. He will settle for smaller deals for Ramon, Bradford maybe Walker.

Huff, Scott and Sherrill stay not because AM would not trade them in the right deal. It's more because he drives a hard bargain and he will find no takes. Roberts and Huff will end up with extensions.

I see no Tex in the O's future either. O's can't match the endorsement deals in NY.

[The Wedge]

I see no Tex in the O's future either. O's can't match the endorsement deals in NY.

I dunno...local boy with local team might net a nice Under Armour deal. I know it's not as much as he'd get being a player in NY, but let's face it...he's not A-Rod or Jeter either.

[NewMarketSean]

IMO, you only stand pat if you don't get the trades you want.

Standing pat because you think Huff, Sherrill and Roberts will perform like this well into their 30's sends me the message that AM thinks he's got the nucleus to a winning team all ready assembled, and that is probably the biggest mistake that previous GM's have made.

We're a long way off from mediocrity, much less a WC or Division winning team.

[wildcard]

I dunno...local boy with local team might net a nice Under Armour deal. I know it's not as much as he'd get being a player in NY, but let's face it...he's not A-Rod or Jeter either.

Yet.

Put him in NY with the lineup he will have around him and it would not take long. He has Cal's character. As Jeter fades Tex would become a big star in NY.

[RShack]

Yet I believe you didn't favor trading a bunch of vets in the off-season either, and probably won't this coming off-season.

I don't know why you think that, because it's not the least bit true. Maybe you think it's true because I don't buy the deadline deal mania. Look, just because I know that "deadline deals" typically don't amount to much, and are mainly just a lot of message board hype, that doesn't mean I think AM shouldn't trade anybody. If you actually read what I said in the off season, you'd know that I said that making trades was not the key to rebuilding. Because it's not. Fixing the org from top to bottom is, and that takes time. However, it was fine with me to trust AM's judgment about whether he thought he could use trades to jump-start the process by a year or so. But that's all it was: jump starting the process a bit. I also said that using trades to try to do that might help or it might hurt, depending on how the trades worked out in the end. However, I repeatedly said that what mattered to me was whether he did what was necessary to make the O's good all the time once again, and that whether he took an extra year or two to accomplish that didn't matter all that much to me.

So, now you've decided that I think AM shouldn't make any trades in the off season? Why on earth would you think that? Just because I'm not working myself into a frenzy about "deadline deals"? Personally, I don't know if AM is gonna make any of them or not, but I really don't think it matters much either way. I'm certainly not attacking posters who think it might be best to wait until the off season to trade any good guys who might be traded.

I think the folks saying that this year's record doesn't matter don't know what they're talking about. It seems clear to me that having this season turn out better than last season *is* important. Why? Because guys are busting their butts until the very last out, and I don't want them getting to the end of the year with nothing to show for it. I don't want BRob and Nick to decide that playing here is a losing proposition nomatter how hard they try, and that they're better off just waiting for FA so they can leave to escape the losing. I also don't want the young guys knowing that BRob and Nick are counting the days until they can get out of town. I want these guys *wanting* to play in BAL, and seeing progress is a big part of that. If "maximizing value" by making a couple dinky "deadline deals" strips the team of key guys and leads to a season of no improvement by the end, and all we get in return is a couple so-so "prospects", then I think that's a bad thing to do. And I don't think AM will do it either. I think all the fuss about how much money is left on so-and-so's contract completely misses the point. This is real baseball with real live people, not fantasy baseball based on a few numbers.

[Dr. FLK]

Why are we so anxious to trade? We dont need to trade our major pieces that are helping us now and that could continue to help us. Im talking about the Sherriill's and the Scotts and Huffs. We need to let them finish out this season with the chance to earn a winning record or .500. If people here want players like Mark Teixera you need to have some sort of sign or consistency and winning. Keeping these guys around for awhile is going to help in the long run.

Is there some sort of consolation prize for finishing above .500? Do you get a trophy? Maybe a nice shiny metal to hang from the mantle? I'm usually with you Peace, but finishing near .500 (and probably being last in your division) is a ludicrous and empty goal. The only thing this organization has done consistently is lose. If AM doesn't continue to look to the future and grow the organizational depth, I can assure you the consistency you're looking for will be there...at the bottom of the standings.

[Peace21]

Is there some sort of consolation prize for finishing above .500? Do you get a trophy? Maybe a nice shiny metal to hang from the mantle? I'm usually with you Peace, but finishing near .500 (and probably being last in your division) is a ludicrous and empty goal. The only thing this organization has done consistently is lose. If AM doesn't continue to look to the future and grow the organizational depth, I can assure you the consistency you're looking for will be there...at the bottom of the standings.

Than lets hope AM can work his magic than.