Chris Davis 2019 and beyond

[Tx Oriole]

15 hours ago, brooksfrankjim said:

You simply can’t play him.  He is having the worst major league season I have seen in my life.  Move Mancini to 1B.  Enough is enough.

I think it's the money owed in his contract that is keeping him playing. 

[webbrick2010]

1 hour ago, Yardball85 said:

I would bench him for the rest of the series and try to convince him to accept an assignment to AAA.

What a complete and utter waste.  He's Brandon Fahey bad.

He's worse

This season is the worst season of all time and its not even close

then if you applied some metric of how much you are paying for this production.... no one in the history of baseball has been within a factor of 10 as bad

[24fps]

11 minutes ago, Yardball85 said:

He is so one of Buck's guys that he could go 0-100 and still be in the lineup every day.  His "punishment" is being moved down to seventh in the order.

I have been a big (and vocal) supporter of Buck over the years, usually without regret, but this is really putting that commitment to the test.  I think Frobby put it very well when he pointed out that the situation has become a disservice not only to the fans, but also to the team.  IMO it's time to show some leadership, which includes making hard decisions when necessary.

[webbrick2010]

12 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Or he and DD and Brady understand that the guy is being paid 160 million and...will not accept a demotion to the bench or to the minors.

Buck is loyal to a fault, but he's not dumb.  We can whine about Tillman all we want, but the facts remain that there weren't significantly better options available for the rotation.  The FO wasn't going to pony up and sign anyone significant and Mike Wright is terrible.  I can't stand these arguments, it's not like the inclusion of Tillman was at the expense of someone else who was a clearly better option.   

But back to Davis, no one likes this situation, how can anyone be happy here?  If they bench Davis, try to demote him or whatever...better believe that he'll cause a fuss and openly complain to the media and then we'll have a REAL issue of crap hitting the fan.  I don't want that.  I'd prefer this to be handled behind the scenes and not airing out dirty laundry for all to see.  While I am a sports fan, I don't seek blood on the sportspages every day, especially from my favorite teams. 

If they bench Davis or try to make him miserable in an effort to get him to accept a demotion or have him sit on the bench, you bring agents and maybe even the MLBPA into the mix.  It could escalate and get nasty.  Some people might want that, some people might enjoy that drama.  Like I said, I don't.

I'd prefer this to be handled quietly behind the scenes, as I said before.  I am hoping that the Orioles are talking to Davis and his representatives to see if there's a way they can have a buyout or come to an agreement on how to proceed here.  My guess is that they are not but it could happen this offseason.

But make no mistake, Chris Davis is in the lineup because his salary stipulates that he should be.

 

Whose facts? David Hess was available but you'd have to actually be able to evaluate the talent in your organization

Castro was available, Wright sucks but he is still way better than Tillman.... no excuse for Tillman, doesn't happen in a real organization.

Why would MLBPA care if Davis is benched, he is having the worst season in baseball history

They would like to see Davis quietly go away... anytime they claim that any teams ownership is not pursuing free agents all that ownership has to do is shout Chris Davis as their defense in why they don't pursue FA's

Chris Davis has done more than any one player  to deflate MLB salaries.

[Horsepower]

Sadly it has gotten to the point where you actually lose respect for the person.  Davis needs to man up and either step away from the game or go to the minors.  He is doing a huge disservice to not only the fanbase but to his team mates also.  Come on Chris Davis,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,DO THE RIGHT THING

[Tx Oriole]

5 hours ago, tntoriole said:

in answer to the OP.....it would take firing Buck Showalter...

.and maybe firing Dan...

and Brady too...

and Potter reaching the end of the road...

and the kids selling the team.   

Other than that, it would be a piece of cake. 

Buck and DD won't be in Baltimore next season. CD will still be on the O's and playing for a new GM and Manager. Fans will still fuss and fume about CD. Peter Angelos is the problem. 

[Moose Milligan]

24 minutes ago, atomic said:

There were better guys on the team than Tillman.   Are you saying David Hess is not better?  I don't understand your constant defense of Buck. He is just as bad at his job as Tillman and Davis are at theirs.  

David Hess is better...for now.  Let's see where he is in a month or two when the book is out on him.  I am assuming you remember the month where Josh Towers looked like he was an all-star.

I'm defending Buck because, as I've said to you dozens of times before, there's no one else out there that can do a significantly better job.  A win here or there, maybe.  But to pretend that this team is in the cellar because of Buck is shortsighted.  

I get it man, you need a scapegoat and a whipping boy.  You need to harness your negative thoughts and emotions and direct it at one person to make yourself feel better and condense all the frustrations you have towards this team.  I will say that Buck is part of the problem, but he is not THE problem.  

[Moose Milligan]

15 minutes ago, webbrick2010 said:

Whose facts? David Hess was available but you'd have to actually be able to evaluate the talent in your organization

Castro was available, Wright sucks but he is still way better than Tillman.... no excuse for Tillman, doesn't happen in a real organization.

Why would MLBPA care if Davis is benched, he is having the worst season in baseball history

They would like to see Davis quietly go away... anytime they claim that any teams ownership is not pursuing free agents all that ownership has to do is shout Chris Davis as their defense in why they don't pursue FA's

Chris Davis has done more than any one player  to deflate MLB salaries.

Please, let's stop acting like David Hess is the savior.  He's had a nice start and pitched well but if we are talking about evaluating talent in the organization I am sure you can see as well as I can that he has middling stuff.  Castro, maybe, but it appears that the team wants to use him as a reliever who can go more than one inning, Lord knows they need it.

Wright is not way better than Tillman.  I mean, if your measuring stick is Tillman and Tillman is getting an F,  Wright is getting a D.  If you're happy with your D because the kid sitting next to you got an F, that's faulty logic.  Wright's ERA is 6.37 this year.  That is absolutely terrible.  You're trying to defend Mike Wright?  He's got a 5.95 career ERA.  Read that sentence, take a breath, then read that sentence again.  I guess you're happy with your D.

Let's slow down here.  You just said no excuse for Tillman, doesn't happen in a real organization.  Your words, not mine.  And I agree with that, Tillman shouldn't have been given a spot in the rotation.  

But your answer is Wright, who has a 5.95 career ERA.  I got news, that doesn't happen in a real organization, either.  Swapping out the guy who had a 7.84 ERA last year for a guy that has a career 5.95 ERA doesn't win you games.  It doesn't move this organization ahead.  It is the very definition of shuffling the deck chairs on the Titanic.  What exactly are we arguing about here?  

If Davis starts crowing because he gets benched or and the Orioles are trying to make his life miserable, the MLBPA will definitely step in.  That's what a players organization does.  The MLBPA will want to make sure that Davis gets every last dollar of his contract no matter how bad he's performing.

Why?  

Because it sets a precedent.  If the Orioles try to make Davis' life miserable and succeed in doing so in driving him out of Baltimore without seeing every last dollar on that contract it will set a precedent that other MLB teams can do that to other MLB players. 

Say Kershaw keeps getting hurt and turns into a Tillman type overnight and the Dodgers want to get out from his massive contract.  All of a sudden they can point to the Orioles as an example of how to get out from a players contract that is no longer favorable.   

That's what a players association does, it steps in to go to bat for issues like that.  And the MLBPA is the strongest one out of all the 4 major sports.  

[Tony-OH]

One thing that really irks me is how Bordick continues to call him Crush. The only thing Davis is crushing is the hopes, dreams and souls of Orioles fans.

[Tony-OH]

35 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

David Hess is better...for now.  Let's see where he is in a month or two when the book is out on him.  I am assuming you remember the month where Josh Towers looked like he was an all-star.

I'm defending Buck because, as I've said to you dozens of times before, there's no one else out there that can do a significantly better job.  A win here or there, maybe.  But to pretend that this team is in the cellar because of Buck is shortsighted.  

I get it man, you need a scapegoat and a whipping boy.  You need to harness your negative thoughts and emotions and direct it at one person to make yourself feel better and condense all the frustrations you have towards this team.  I will say that Buck is part of the problem, but he is not THE problem.  

Is anyone saying otherwise? I feel like everyone for the most part is in agreement with your statement here. 

I don't think firing Buck is going to suddenly change how the Orioles are playing, but I do believe it's time for a new voice. Then again I think their needs to be a new voice at the top of the organization first and foremost. Until that changes we're just moving deck chairs on the Titanic.

[spiritof66]

9 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

One thing that really irks me is how Bordick continues to call him Crush. The only thing Davis is crushing is the hopes, dreams and souls of Orioles fans.

I'm pretty sure "Crush" Davis was coined as a play on "Crash" Davis," the Kevin Costner character in Bull Durham. In light of how   Chris's career has plummeted, "Crashed" Davis would be more fitting.

[Tony-OH]

5 hours ago, Ohfan67 said:

The situation sucks for the Orioles, but no one put a gun to Peter Angelos' head and forced this contract on the Orioles. Teams get a lot of cheap WAR out of young talent, then they have to gamble with free agents as players age. The Orioles went all in and lost big. This is not the union's fault or the system's fault. The Orioles bid against themselves and gave Davis this contract. 

This is really the unfortunate truth. This decision lies on ownership who made the final decision to give Davis this enormous contract. As much as some want to blame Davis, he took what the Orioles were willing to offer. 

At the end of the day, Peter Angelos is the reason this organization is stuck with a giant suckhole of a contract. He needs to accept responsibility, and the organization needs to move forward and try to rebuild without sending the worse player in the major league out to play every night. This is what happens when you listen to a manager who is more concerned with having "his guys" around him them actually thinking what's best for the organization as whole.

Basically Angelos bet on Chris Davis to be the guy this team is built around when he had Manny Machado on his roster. That should say everything that you need to know about how the organization is run.

[Moose Milligan]

10 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

Is anyone saying otherwise? I feel like everyone for the most part is in agreement with your statement here. 

I don't think firing Buck is going to suddenly change how the Orioles are playing, but I do believe it's time for a new voice. Then again I think their needs to be a new voice at the top of the organization first and foremost. Until that changes we're just moving deck chairs on the Titanic.

Not sure, it appears to me sometimes that people feel like Buck is the #1 problem without a doubt.  

Agree that it's time for a new voice but I'd prefer to see a proper search done in the offseason.  But in regards to your statement about a new voice at the top, I agree there.   Without that, I expect them to botch a new manager search and pretty much everything else.

I hate this.  We are headed to the dark ages again and people are saying David Hess is the man and are whining about Mike Wright not getting starts over Chris Tillman which is somewhere near #87 on a list of things that need to be fixed.

[clapdiddy]

2 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

This is really the unfortunate truth. This decision lies on ownership who made the final decision to give Davis this enormous contract. As much as some want to blame Davis, he took what the Orioles were willing to offer. 

At the end of the day, Peter Angelos is the reason this organization is stuck with a giant suckhole of a contract. He needs to accept responsibility, and the organization needs to move forward and try to rebuild without sending the worse player in the major league out to play every night. This is what happens when you listen to a manager who is more concerned with having "his guys" around him them actually thinking what's best for the organization as whole.

Basically Angelos bet on Chris Davis to be the guy this team is built around when he had Manny Machado on his roster. That should say everything that you need to know about how the organization is run.

I'm wondering if they would have offered this same deal to Manny when they gave it to Davis if he would have taken it?   They probably would have needed to give him more money during the life of the contract, but the total dollars would seem to be in the ballpark.

[atomic]

51 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

David Hess is better...for now.  Let's see where he is in a month or two when the book is out on him.  I am assuming you remember the month where Josh Towers looked like he was an all-star.

I'm defending Buck because, as I've said to you dozens of times before, there's no one else out there that can do a significantly better job.  A win here or there, maybe.  But to pretend that this team is in the cellar because of Buck is shortsighted.  

I get it man, you need a scapegoat and a whipping boy.  You need to harness your negative thoughts and emotions and direct it at one person to make yourself feel better and condense all the frustrations you have towards this team.  I will say that Buck is part of the problem, but he is not THE problem.  

You start fixing the problems you can.  Buck is a problem that is easily fixable.  When did I ever say Buck was the only problem on the team.  We have a team full of guys who either can't hit or who can't hit and can't field.  

Also I never said Wright was the answer either. I said he should have been released last season.  But I am guessing that we could have gotten someone off of waivers that could have done better than Tillman if not at least we would be paying them less.