I really want to keep Villar (Update: Traded to Marlins for LHS Easton Lucas)

[Enjoy Terror]

2 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

Remember what Tim Collins said.

“I can feel it coming in the air tonight, oh lord”

[sportsfan8703]

10 hours ago, Luke-OH said:

So I just was told by another source that he is on waivers, a team source (not Orioles). 

So either the reporting about still trying to trade him is wrong or the publicly available waiver rules are wrong, because they clearly say outright waivers are unrevocable.

This is a little confusing, but the simple answer is likely that we just cut Villar for nothing other that salary savings. The rest is just procedural and baseball “writers” non understanding the waiver rules. 

If we’re making coldblooded moves, can we just cut Chris Davis?  Word it however you want it. 

Edited December 2, 2019 by sportsfan8703

[mdbdotcom]

Putting Villar on waivers might have been to show fans - and Villar - that no one will pay what he is likely to get in arbitration.

[sportsfan8703]

5 minutes ago, mdbdotcom said:

Putting Villar on waivers might have been to show fans - and Villar - that no one will pay what he is likely to get in arbitration.

There has to be some reason for it to go down like this. Something has to go down today. The deadline to tender players is Monday(tonight) at 8pm. 

Did Elias use some procedural loophole to try and drum up some type of trade market?  For example did he request waivers that had a deadline after the tender deadline tonight, just to grab a headline and drum up a trade market?

 

Edited December 2, 2019 by sportsfan8703

[thezeroes]

1 hour ago, sportsfan8703 said:

There has to be some reason for it to go down like this. Something has to go down today. The deadline to tender players is Monday(tonight) at 8pm. 

Did Elias use some procedural loophole to try and drum up some type of trade market?  For example did he request waivers that had a deadline after the tender deadline tonight, just to grab a headline and drum up a trade market?

 

Right to Refuse Outright Assignment or Elect Free-Agency if Outrighted

Per Article XIX-A of the CBA, any player on an MLB 40-man roster who has accrued at least five years of MLB Service Time (as well as an international player with Article XIX-A contractual rights) has the right to refuse an Outright Assignment to the minors, or the player can elect to be a free-agent immediately upon being outrighted, or he can accept the Outright Assignment and defer his option to elect free-agency until after the conclusion of the MLB regular season.

However, an Article XIX-A player who accepts an Outright Assignment and defers his option to elect free-agency until after the conclusion of the MLB regular season forfeits his right to elect free-agency (as an Article XIX-A minor league free-agent) if he is added back to an MLB 40-man roster prior to the conclusion of the MLB regular season.

If a player with Article XIX-A rights refuses an Outright Assignment but does not elect free-agency, the club must either retain the player on the club's MLB Reserve List (40-man roster), trade the player, or give the player his unconditional release.

If a player with Article XIX-A rights is outrighted and elects to be a free-agent immediately, his contract is terminated and he receives no termination pay. But if the player accepts the Outright Assignment and defers his right to be a free-agent until the conclusion of the MLB regular season, the player continues to get paid, receiving the balance of his salary through to the end of the season. And then if the outrighted player is not subsequently added back to an MLB 40-man roster prior to the conclusion of the MLB regular season, the player can elect free-agency anytime beginning on the day after the conclusion of the MLB regular season through October 15th.

A player with Article XIX-A rights can waive his right to refuse an outright assignment or elect free-agency if outrighted, but the waiver cannot be signed more than ten days prior to MLB Opening Day, the player has the right to designate in advance which minor league team to which he can be assigned, and the waiver automatically expires if the player is not outrighted to the minors within 45 days or by the 45th day of the MLB regular season (whichever is later).

[Aglets]

According to Roch's morning blogpost teams have until 1 pm today to claim Villar..  I guess he will be a FA after that?

https://www.masnsports.com/school-of-roch/2019/12/deadline-arriving-to-tender-contracts-to-arbitration-eligible-players.html

[theocean]

4 minutes ago, Aglets said:

According to Roch's morning blogpost teams have until 1 pm today to claim Villar..  I guess he will be a FA after that?

https://www.masnsports.com/school-of-roch/2019/12/deadline-arriving-to-tender-contracts-to-arbitration-eligible-players.html

The general assumption is that the Orioles will non-tender Villar if another team does not acquire him, either via waiver claim or trade.

The O's could also work out a deal with Villar, still. But, I can't see that happening - assuming that the Orioles aren't going to offer Villar a multi-year deal. 

[weams]

33 minutes ago, theocean said:

The general assumption is that the Orioles will non-tender Villar if another team does not acquire him, either via waiver claim or trade.

The O's could also work out a deal with Villar, still. But, I can't see that happening - assuming that the Orioles aren't going to offer Villar a multi-year deal. 

Villar is not available to be traded unless two or more claim have been submitted before 1 PM.

[thezeroes]

Since Villar was placed on Outright Waivers the Orioles can still retain him, resign him, tender him, trade him, release him.  Villar's agent has the ball in his court, so to speak, by either refusing the Outright Assignment (which Villar will do) and then not immediately announce Free Agncy which throws the ball back to the Orioles which have to reinstate him on the 40 Man Roster, release him or trade him.  If Villar is reinstated on the Forty I think the Orioles tender him a contract and then try to trade him.  If he goes to Arbitration and WINS (Villar) the Orioles could always cut him prior to the beginning of the season and only owe him pittance of the contract.

[weams]

17 minutes ago, thezeroes said:

Since Villar was placed on Outright Waivers the Orioles can still retain him, resign him, tender him, trade him, release him.  Villar's agent has the ball in his court, so to speak, by either refusing the Outright Assignment (which Villar will do) and then not immediately announce Free Agncy which throws the ball back to the Orioles which have to reinstate him on the 40 Man Roster, release him or trade him.  If Villar is reinstated on the Forty I think the Orioles tender him a contract and then try to trade him.  If he goes to Arbitration and WINS (Villar) the Orioles could always cut him prior to the beginning of the season and only owe him pittance of the contract.

Are you of the opinion that Villar can be withdrawn from waivers? Because if not, he can no longer be traded. 

[sportsfan8703]

43 minutes ago, weams said:

Villar is not available to be traded unless two or more claim have been submitted before 1 PM.

I think we may have an answer as to why Elias went this route.  He was hoping multiple teams would put in claims, which would create a trade market before the non tender deadline.  We'll all find out soon enough.  

[interloper]

I'm more and more ok with letting Villar walk. It really just doesn't matter. Yeah, it's a mandate from ownership to keep payroll low during the rebuild, but honestly that's fine as long as the dollars are there when it matters/Elias wants them, which we have no reason to believe isn't the case at the moment. Villar isn't going to help Elias field a winning team, so what does he care? He probably doesn't, and it frees up a roster spot to tinker with and acquire a guy with control/options. 

In the grand scheme of things, this move is really pretty meaningless. I don't think Elias is losing any sleep over it and he might prefer Villar be off the roster anyway. 

[bobmc]

7 minutes ago, interloper said:

I'm more and more ok with letting Villar walk. It really just doesn't matter. Yeah, it's a mandate from ownership to keep payroll low during the rebuild, but honestly that's fine as long as the dollars are there when it matters/Elias wants them, which we have no reason to believe isn't the case at the moment. Villar isn't going to help Elias field a winning team, so what does he care? He probably doesn't, and it frees up a roster spot to tinker with and acquire a guy with control/options. 

In the grand scheme of things, this move is really pretty meaningless. I don't think Elias is losing any sleep over it and he might prefer Villar be off the roster anyway. 

That ^^^^. (photo credit Joy R. Absalon!). Adios amigo!

[weams]

4 minutes ago, bobmc said:

That ^^^^. (photo credit Joy R. Absalon!). Adios amigo!

 

photo Dr Shorebird

[wildbillhiccup]

33 minutes ago, weams said:

Are you of the opinion that Villar can be withdrawn from waivers? Because if not, he can no longer be traded. 

According to this, outright waivers are not revocable. 

Type	Function	Revocable?	Price	Periods Available	Period Effective	Ineligible Players
Trade Assignment Waivers	To assign a player on the 40-man roster of one MLB club to the 40-man roster of another MLB club.	Yes*	$20,000	4:00 pm ET on July 31 through the last day of the season	Rest of period	Disabled†, Military, Ineligible, Voluntarily Retired, Bereavement, Restricted, Suspended, or Disqualified Lists
Outright Waivers	To remove a player from the 40-man roster and assign him to a minor league club.	No	$20,000	(1) Nov 11 - Feb 15 (2) Feb 16 - 30th day of the season (3) 31st day - July 31 (4) Aug 1 - Aug31 (5) Sept 1 - Nov 10	(1,2,5) Rest of period or 7 days (whichever is first) (3,4) Rest of period	Disabled†, Military, Ineligible, Voluntarily Retired, Bereavement, Restricted, Suspended, or Disqualified Lists
Unconditional Release Waivers	To terminate the relationship between an MLB player and the club and make him a free agent.	No	$1	All times	Immediate	Military List, Ineligible List

* When a player that was previously pulled back from revocable waivers is placed on the same type of waivers during the same waiver period, that waiver request becomes irrevocable. That is, a player who is placed on waivers may only be pulled back once.

† Outright and trade assignment waivers can be obtained for players on the disabled list only if: a) the minimum period of inactivity (15 or 60 days) has elapsed; b) the assigning club guarantees the player is well enough to play.