BJ Surhoff Is Angry

[Sessh]

I think the Royals proved that they were not just a "hot" team when they made it back to the WS the next year and won it. They were the best team in the AL two years in a row and it wasn't a fluke or just a hot team. The Orioles had the lead for only 2.5 innings that whole four game series. We scored 10 runs in the first two games and allowed 14 runs. Every time we tied the game, we couldn't get the big hit to take the lead and the pitching gave the lead back. They had us playing catch-up the whole series. They outplayed us.

[Moose Milligan]

12 hours ago, CallMeBrooksie said:

Surhoff comes off like the grumpy Old Guard of scouts as portrayed in the Moneyball film. I've always liked Surhoff, but I found it humorous.

As a younger fan who's never rooted for a championship caliber O's team, I've grown to lament the endless pumping up and promotion of the great teams and players of Baltimore's distant past, with post-prime Cal being the only one I have any personal memories of. I'm mostly jealous that there are no moments that are seen worthy of celebration that feel like I can call my own. Only exception would be the streak, which barely feels like a baseball accomplishment to me as time goes by.

What I'm trying to get at is.. the Oriole way died a long time ago, and it feels way past due to me for the franchise to start anew and stop clutching so tightly to a past that almost feels like a taunt to those of us who can hardly imagine such a successful baseball club. I get that these promotions are the only thing that gets the aging Orioles fanbase to come out these days given the on field product... And I do think that the club's history is important and worth celebrating ... But it feels so refreshing to see this regime come in and show a commitment to doing things a completely new way. I'm ready for my own Oriole Way. 

This is very much like the Redskins.  Everything is a call-back to the glory years of the Gibbs-era 80s.  

It's what teams that haven't done much (if anything) in recent memory do...tug on the heartstrings of those who are old enough to remember the good times.  And if you're too young to remember those days, they try to paint a picture of what it COULD be like.  To your point it is a taunt of sorts, for sure.

I'm not sure what Surhoff expected here.  To draw another football comparison, does anyone here watch Hard Knocks?  It's practically the same thing every year when they cut players, they have an assistant coach find the guys they're going to cut and they say...."Coach wants to see you, bring your playbook."

The player knows what's coming.  Hangs his head, grabs his playbook and goes towards the head coaches office.

The head coach goes..."Hey, we've made a decision to release you and move in a different direction today.  Thank you for your hard work, we appreciate it."

"Ok, thank you."

Maybe, MAYBE they talk for a minute about an area of improvement that needs to be addressed on the players side so he knows what he needs to work on so he can stick with another team.  If not, they shake hands, player gets up, leaves, packs his things and he's gone.  From the time the assistant coach gets him to the time he's in the parking lot, it looks like the whole thing takes less than 10 minutes.

And that's for a guy who's fighting for his career.  That's a guy who's dying for a shot at professional football.  That's a guy who is showing up to the facility every day, going through drills, spending time in the film room, playing in preseason games and getting to know his coaches and fellow players.  That's what Hard Knocks is mostly about, the journey of guys who are trying to fight and find a way to make the roster. 

Every single one of those guys that gets cut on Hard Knocks spends more time with their coaching staff than Surhoff did with Elias.  And every single one of those guys gets cut in the blink of an eye with a handshake and a thank you.

Surhoff had an ENTIRE YEAR to figure out what was going on.  I read the whole article during my morning constitutional today, it was terrible.  Ruined the whole thing. 

(FYI, @TonySoprano I know you've been campaigning for The Athletic for awhile now...I got a free year of The Athletic because I subscribed to Joe Posnanski's blog.  And Posnanski got picked up by The Athletic a few weeks ago so he gave his subscribers a free year to The Athletic.  So far, it's been pretty good stuff and I like that it's ad free.  I doubt I'll remember in September of 2020 to cancel it before they bill my card for the next year.  But they do have Ken Rosenthal on staff so I won't mind too much when I see that charge hit my account.)

Here's some of the whining that made me roll my eyes:

Quote

“Present it to us. Tell us what it is you are actually trying to do,” Surhoff added. “Because how do they know you haven’t been doing that already? We don’t live in a vacuum; there is plenty of technology out there. And whether the systems are different, or the platforms are different, I wouldn’t know because it was never, ever shown to me.”

Quote

“I was disappointed in (Elias’ communication). I thought there’d be more. I thought they would want to come in and get everybody on the same page and get everybody pulling in the same direction,” Surhoff said. “That’s what I’d like to do. That’s what I wanted to do. And if you don’t want to, then you’ve made your own bed.”

Quote

“Does my chuckle answer that question? I mean, I’ll still talk to people if they reach out. I still have friends there that work for them or broadcast for them. And I’d talk to the players if I see something,” Surhoff said. “That will be no different going forward. But there’s a good chance you won’t see me at the ballpark.”

Um, what?

My take on Surhoff's sour grapes (make no mistake, he says it's not sour grapes and then proceeds to show us he's a professional vinter) is that he wanted Elias to reach out and kiss his ass from day 1.  Surhoff spent an entire year doing his part time job and sitting by the phone waiting for Elias to call him.

Did it ever dawn on Surhoff to reach out to Elias?  Did Connolly even bother to ask?

Did Surhoff ever stop to think, "Hey, the Orioles just hired this new guy, he's analytics driven, he's been successful in Houston and...maybe I should call him to introduce myself, tell him that I really like working here and that I want to meet with him to learn everything they're doing and SHOW that I'm adaptable?"

Communication is a two way street.  "Present it to us....show it to me....I'll still talk to people if they reach out..."

Not ONCE did he say anything about reaching out to them.  All Surhoff wanted was for the new sheriff in town to call him and be like "Hey, you were the #1 draft pick in '85 right?  You had a great career!  Wow, I will really value your insights!  35 years in pro ball, I'm barely over 35 years old myself!  Hey, let's do lunch at Dempsey's next week and you can tell me about everything you know!" 

Not once in this whole blathering article did Surhoff ever say anything about "Yeah, I called Elias, like, 50 times to reach out and show that I want to be a part of his vision and a part of what he's doing...and he never got back to me."  I'd be more sympathetic and understanding then.

You know, it's funny.  You hear ballplayers, athletes, coaches across all sports talk about being aggressive, having to work for things, "first one in, last one to leave," learning new things, different approaches, blah blah blah...all the old cliches that have been worn out over the years about hard work, dedication, etc...which are cliches because they've been repeated so often but are true in practice.   

And for a guy like Surhoff to act like once you hang 'em up, the aggressiveness, the having to work for things doesn't matter anymore because you had a great career and you're kind of a someone in team history and that things and people who ARE NOW YOUR BOSS should come to you is completely naive.  Especially for a part time role that's obviously isn't crucial to the team's success moving forward, the idea that Elias had to reach out and talk to him is asinine.  

Quote

One of the things that irks Surhoff is that he never felt there was any evaluation process in place, and therefore, “No time was spent trying to find out whether I really helped or not and whether I brought anything to the table or not,” Surhoff said. “I didn’t feel like I was evaluated on anything. It was indicated to me they were going to make changes, do things differently, and I got the impression that they didn’t think that I was capable of doing those things.”

Again, did he reach out?  Did he ever reach out to Elias to make a case for himself?  Was he proactive in showing Elias that he did make a difference, that he did help out?

Baseball is a game of adjustments.  We hear it all the time on the broadcasts.  A guy gets called up from the minors, hammers big league pitching for his first few weeks and then the book gets out on him, the league makes adjustments.  So he needs to see if he can make adjustments back.  

BJ Surhoff failed to make adjustments in his plate approach to life.  He sat back and was looking for fastballs that he could drive and got a steady dose of off-speed stuff and breaking balls that he couldn't handle and grounded out weakly to the opposite side.  And then proceeded to cry Paul O'Neill style on his way back to the dugout about how the pitcher was unfair to him.

[milbest77]

Moose, that is a perfect response. No doubt, feelings will get hurt when making changes. But, baseball is a Business last time I checked. Connolly is highlighting the whole problem with all these articles: too many artifacts from the old regime were clogging up the machine. Whether he realizes that or not, who knows. But, corporate America is all about evolving with the times.

[Moose Milligan]

35 minutes ago, milbest77 said:

Moose, that is a perfect response. No doubt, feelings will get hurt when making changes. But, baseball is a Business last time I checked. Connolly is highlighting the whole problem with all these articles: too many artifacts from the old regime were clogging up the machine. Whether he realizes that or not, who knows. But, corporate America is all about evolving with the times.

Well, thanks.  

No one wants to be labeled a kiss ass, brown noser in life.  No one likes being that guy...but sometimes, you've gotta be that guy no matter how great you've been at your job, no matter how many awards you've won, no matter how many years you've grinded it out...because unless you are the BSD who's writing the checks, calling the shots, making the decisions on how the company is going to move forward...well, you can most likely be replaced.  Surhoff comes across as thinking his part time, roving instructor position was irreplaceable, his haughtiness in this article is kind of appalling.  

Sometimes you gotta buddy up with the new boss, sometimes you gotta be mocked and laughed at by your co-workers and have them call you a brown noser behind your back because...well, they're not doing it and can't put their egos aside.  And you've gotta play the game to show people that you provide value and do a good job so if all things between you and your co-workers are equal on the day some layoffs need to be made you get to keep your job while they're sent packing.  Meanwhile, they're STILL calling you a brown noser, suck up, kiss ass, etc and acting like they're owed something.  Did anyone mention that this article says that Brady Anderson still has a job?

The bitch of it is that Surhoff was probably pretty solid at what he did.  I bet there was nothing wrong with the instruction that Surhoff provided players.  You say too many artifacts clogging up the machine and while I don't disagree with that idea...a roving instructor can't really clog up the machine.  He shouldn't be able to get in the way of player development in the way that a minor league pitching coach or a minor league manager could get in the way.  I imagine that on the totem pole of a baseball organization's coaching staff, a roving instructor has to be near the very bottom.  And therefore easily let go NO MATTER HOW GOOD they are.  

You are right, corporate America is about evolving with the times.  Sometimes those evolutions come gradually, sometimes they're very small.  Sometimes they're big and jarring and people freak out because we're creatures of habit and don't like it when our way of doing something is tampered with or overhauled.  Surhoff's failure to evolve with the times, IMO,  didn't come from his instruction on how to hit a baseball or an inability to grasp newfangled analytics...it came from his inability to communicate effectively what he did and how he added value.

[foxfield]

I think it's a terrible article.  And I think Connolly is catching BJ at a bad time and saying things most anyone would feel in losing a job.  But why?  Why work the angle that ME is the problem here?  Because he came in to do a total rebuild and is doing some demolition work?  IF any employee has been with the Orioles over the last year and did not speak to Mike Elias...well they should pretty well expect that their time is drawing near.   Mike called BJ on the phone.  I just can't get worked up over this.

But it is the third or fourth time Ive read Connolly writing about this in a negative fashion.  I'm sure he gets information from some who are now gone, but I'm really having a hard time seeing this as not going after Elias.  And it just does not make sense to me that a guy brought in to do a total rebuild should be expected...to do a rebuild.  I'm especially curious if Connolly knows all of these folks so intimately, why we did not hear more details on the dysfunction of the Orioles during the time of Buck/Brady/DD.

It seems personal, pointed and well...unprofessional.

[Can_of_corn]

I figure he was close with some of the folks let go and that is coloring his work.  I wonder if at some point the Athletic reins him in.

[atomic]

7 hours ago, milbest77 said:

Moose, that is a perfect response. No doubt, feelings will get hurt when making changes. But, baseball is a Business last time I checked. Connolly is highlighting the whole problem with all these articles: too many artifacts from the old regime were clogging up the machine. Whether he realizes that or not, who knows. But, corporate America is all about evolving with the times.

It is not normal in corporate America to fire and replace so many people.  When I wanted someone fired the person had to be given dozens of written warnings and very long drawn out process for someone that was only there a few months. To fire someone that had been there for years they would have to have done gross misconduct.  Punched someone or sexual harrassment. 

[atomic]

6 minutes ago, atomic said:

It is not normal in corporate America to fire and replace so many people.  When I wanted someone fired the person had to be given dozens of written warnings and very long drawn out process for someone that was only there a few months. To fire someone that had been there for years they would have to have done gross misconduct.  Punched someone or sexual harrassment. 

Why is someone downvoting facts?  

[Can_of_corn]

7 minutes ago, atomic said:

It is not normal in corporate America to fire and replace so many people.  When I wanted someone fired the person had to be given dozens of written warnings and very long drawn out process for someone that was only there a few months. To fire someone that had been there for years they would have to have done gross misconduct.  Punched someone or sexual harrassment. 

 

Just now, atomic said:

Why is someone downvoting facts?  

Because it isn't facts.  Theese folks are not being fired, their contracts are not being renewed.  Totally different animal.

[7Mo]

12 hours ago, milbest77 said:

I subscribe to the Athletic and Connolly, while a very good writer, seems to have had some kind of axe to grind since all these personnel changes were announced. This is like the 2nd or 3rd article he’s had in the past month where he laments the personnel changes being made. What did he expect? A new broom sweeps clean...

Third and I completely agree with your post.

[CallMeBrooksie]

28 minutes ago, atomic said:

Why is someone downvoting facts?  

 

26 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

 

Because it isn't facts.  Theese folks are not being fired, their contracts are not being renewed.  Totally different animal.

Not to mention your corporate experience means jack squat when it comes to a professional sports organization. Not even remotely comparable.

[atomic]

7 minutes ago, CallMeBrooksie said:

 

Not to mention your corporate experience means jack squat when it comes to a professional sports organization. Not even remotely comparable.

I am responding to someone who said this is how corporate America works.  It doesnt work that way.   If they said this is how sports teams work I wouldn't have replied.

[atomic]

39 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

 

Because it isn't facts.  Theese folks are not being fired, their contracts are not being renewed.  Totally different animal.

They were fired if they were team employees who had benefits like social security paid by the Orioles and health benefits.  If they were independent contractors with no benefits than they weren't fired.

[Moose Milligan]

2 hours ago, foxfield said:

I think it's a terrible article.  And I think Connolly is catching BJ at a bad time and saying things most anyone would feel in losing a job.  But why?  Why work the angle that ME is the problem here?  Because he came in to do a total rebuild and is doing some demolition work?  IF any employee has been with the Orioles over the last year and did not speak to Mike Elias...well they should pretty well expect that their time is drawing near.   Mike called BJ on the phone.  I just can't get worked up over this.

But it is the third or fourth time Ive read Connolly writing about this in a negative fashion.  I'm sure he gets information from some who are now gone, but I'm really having a hard time seeing this as not going after Elias.  And it just does not make sense to me that a guy brought in to do a total rebuild should be expected...to do a rebuild.  I'm especially curious if Connolly knows all of these folks so intimately, why we did not hear more details on the dysfunction of the Orioles during the time of Buck/Brady/DD.

It seems personal, pointed and well...unprofessional.

I don't necessarily disagree with your take....but it's late September, the Orioles have been out of it since...well, April.  There's not a whole lot of newsworthy items right now, it's kind of boring and quiet.  I mean, if you're Connolly, what else do you have to write about right now?  And look, he's gotta get clicks.  Unfortunately that's how he keeps his job today.  So he writes a column about a bitter ex-Oriole getting canned and...look, we're all talking about it here.  

Let's say hypothetically Brady gets canned next week.  Does Connolly NOT reach out to him for his side of the story, to get angry quotes?  Does he NOT write another column exactly like this one?  Do we NOT start another thread about the Brady Saga and how it's ended?  All of those things would have to happen.  Connolly wouldn't be doing his job if he didn't report it.

He can "go after" Elias all he wants, it's a fool's errand. You are right, though...what did people expect?  Looking back on it, maybe people expected Elias to clean house last December.  Maybe these people were lulled into some false sense of security and thought that if they'd made it this far, that Elias would keep them on and didn't see it coming.  

[atomic]

8 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

I don't necessarily disagree with your take....but it's late September, the Orioles have been out of it since...well, April.  There's not a whole lot of newsworthy items right now, it's kind of boring and quiet.  I mean, if you're Connolly, what else do you have to write about right now?  And look, he's gotta get clicks.  Unfortunately that's how he keeps his job today.  So he writes a column about a bitter ex-Oriole getting canned and...look, we're all talking about it here.  

Let's say hypothetically Brady gets canned next week.  Does Connolly NOT reach out to him for his side of the story, to get angry quotes?  Does he NOT write another column exactly like this one?  Do we NOT start another thread about the Brady Saga and how it's ended?  All of those things would have to happen.  Connolly wouldn't be doing his job if he didn't report it.

He can "go after" Elias all he wants, it's a fool's errand. You are right, though...what did people expect?  Looking back on it, maybe people expected Elias to clean house last December.  Maybe these people were lulled into some false sense of security and thought that if they'd made it this far, that Elias would keep them on and didn't see it coming.  

BJ Surhoff made over 30 million and Brady over 40 million in their careers.  IMHO we shouldn't be feeling sorry for them.  But I do feel bad for the guys getting up there in years who never were big league ballplayers with huge salaries.  Those guys are probably keeping quiet so they dont make any waves th ast keeps them from latching on with another team. I hope they get some sort of severance package.