The deadline is looming...Is Elias done?

[Roll Tide]

34 minutes ago, Philip said:

Guys.....oh and here I am contributing...Let’s beat that dead horse!

Imagine if this were a normal season. Nobody could’ve anticipated that it would not be at the time that Villar was traded.

With all respect, it is complete malarkey to suggest that Jonathan would’ve played for less so that he could stay with his pals. So the trade to Miami was to save money on a player who had no trade value( or he would have been traded at the previous deadline.) Not only that, but in Miami he was playing lousy, so lousy that the GM actually complained publicly about his attitude. 
The Orioles did a good thing by letting him go, regardless of the quality of the return.

What happened yesterday was much more a big mistake on the part of Toronto than it was a coup on the part of Miami.
as Jeff Cooper once said of the AK-47,”it is a good weapon for my enemy to have.”

I’m glad the Jays have Villar and I’m glad they gave up something meaningful for him.

He agreed to a one year deal for 8.5 instead of 10.

 

Would he have agrees to a discount for 3 contract ($22.5 million is more than 8,5) .... Maybe/Maybe not --- Villar comes off to me as a player that does better when hes comfortable. I dont think you can say for certain that you know.

The large font is another theory of yours that cant be proven! You don't know what was offered and or turned down

By Roch's article today they were also listening on Alberto, Fry , and Cobb.

DO YOU THINK ALBERTO HAS NO VALUE BECAUSE HE WASNT DEALT?

Even the most conservative guys here @DrungoHazewood & @Frobby admit that Elias overplayed his hand. And perhaps really screwed it up. He was/is a new GM that is learning the role. So you can expect him to make some mistakes

I think the returns for Bundy and Villar were too light! If you dont we can agree to disagree

 

 

 

 

[Roll Tide]

28 minutes ago, weams said:

I'm a customer. I did not like Villar. 

I did so we can agree to disagree. His 40 stolen bases last year were more valuable to the team than watching Alberto go station to station this year and being stranded after another K or flyout by Nunez, Ruiz etc

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

7 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

I did so we can agree to disagree. His 40 stolen bases last year were more valuable to the team than watching Alberto go station to station this year and being stranded after another K or flyout by Nunez, Ruiz etc

 

[hoosiers]

1 hour ago, DrungoHazewood said:

I think that was a risky strategy if that was the end goal, because Milone's past 3-4 years were not good.  If he'd had a couple more poor starts for the Os they likely get nothing for him.

I am not sure there is a better way to create prospects from scratch on a losing, rebuilding team than to sign a couple, cheap reclamation projects - usually pitchers - and deal them at the trade deadline.  The risk lays only in the ability of the player to perform well enough to be traded for something of value - maybe each of these signings work out a third of the time - perhaps better. 

Otherwise, everything else is cheap.  There also can be secondary benefits if the player is a good mentor to the younger players or a leader on the team.  

[luismatos4prez]

I like the returns Elias got this week for Givens and Castro. 

I think he pulled the trigger too soon on Villar and Bundy. He should have held onto both for longer if those were the best offers on the table. The team's budget is extremely low, so the situation wasn't pressing like the trades would suggest.

I like Elias' style generally, but those 2 trades this winter and passing on Austin Martin have been the wrong moves in my opinion. Hopefully, the guys we acquired will prove me wrong.

[Roll Tide]

8 minutes ago, hoosiers said:

I am not sure there is a better way to create prospects from scratch on a losing, rebuilding team than to sign a couple, cheap reclamation projects - usually pitchers - and deal them at the trade deadline.  The risk lays only in the ability of the player to perform well enough to be traded for something of value - maybe each of these signings work out a third of the time - perhaps better. 

Otherwise, everything else is cheap.  There also can be secondary benefits if the player is a good mentor to the younger players or a leader on the team.  

We havent see the return yet for Milone ...But if its just what we got for Cashner than its probably mostly wasted effort

[interloper]

2 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

We havent see the return yet for Milone ...But if its just what we got for Cashner than its probably mostly wasted effort

I'll do cartwheels if Elias managed to get Cashner return for Milone, a 33 yr old minor league signing who is pitching way better than he should be. 

[weams]

4 minutes ago, luismatos4prez said:

I like the returns Elias got this week for Givens and Castro. 

I think he pulled the trigger too soon on Villar and Bundy. He should have held onto both for longer if those were the best offers on the table. The team's budget is extremely low, so the situation wasn't pressing like the trades would suggest.

I like Elias' style generally, but those 2 trades this winter and passing on Austin Martin have been the wrong moves in my opinion. Hopefully, the guys we acquired will prove me wrong.

Elias was not paying for Villar, so he would have gotten zero return there. Right or wrong, he was not tendering Villar. Bundy was too soon. I think Vavra is Austin Martin, isn't he? 

[HowAboutThat]

35 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

He agreed to a one year deal for 8.5 instead of 10.

 

Would he have agrees to a discount for 3 contract ($22.5 million is more than 8,5) .... Maybe/Maybe not --- Villar comes off to me as a player that does better when hes comfortable. I dont think you can say for certain that you know.

The large font is another theory of yours that cant be proven! You don't know what was offered and or turned down

By Roch's article today they were also listening on Alberto, Fry , and Cobb.

DO YOU THINK ALBERTO HAS NO VALUE BECAUSE HE WASNT DEALT?

Even the most conservative guys here @DrungoHazewood & @Frobby admit that Elias overplayed his hand. And perhaps really screwed it up. He was/is a new GM that is learning the role. So you can expect him to make some mistakes

I think the returns for Bundy and Villar were too light! If you dont we can agree to disagree

 

 

 

 

No worries, basically I am not unhappy with what Elias did with Villar. He was a very frustrating player, And the Marlin GM specifically said(paraphrasing)“ he refused to buy into the program.”
It is rare for a GM to throw a guy under a bus like that.

His play this season certainly indicates that Mike’s choice was a wise one. It certainly doesn’t matter anymore, he’s gone and has been gone since December so who cares. Let’s focus on today and getting rid of the lousy players we have now

[interloper]

1 minute ago, weams said:

Elias was not paying for Villar, so he would have gotten zero return there. Right or wrong, he was not tendering Villar. Bundy was too soon. I think Vavra is Austin Martin, isn't he? 

Sure seems like they could have tinkered with him a bit more to get more value out of him, but maybe Elias looked at the injury history combined with the arb raise and the metrics and got a little jumpy. I really hope at least one of the kids we got in return for Bundy amounts to a good major leaguer. Not just decent, but good.  

[weams]

2 minutes ago, interloper said:

Sure seems like they could have tinkered with him a bit more to get more value out of him, but maybe Elias looked at the injury history combined with the arb raise and the metrics and got a little jumpy. I really hope at least one of the kids we got in return for Bundy amounts to a good major leaguer. Not just decent, but good.  

I just don't think he had the money, honestly. 

[Roll Tide]

Just now, Philip said:

No worries, basically I am not unhappy with what Elias did with Villar. He was a very frustrating player, And the Marlin GM specifically said(paraphrasing)“ he refused to buy into the program.”
It is rare for a GM to throw a guy under a bus like that.

His play this season certainly indicates that Mike’s choice was a wise one. It certainly doesn’t matter anymore, he’s gone and has been gone since December so who cares. Let’s focus on today and getting rid of the lousy players we have now

He started slow .... But so did a lot of guys in this odd season.

In his last 55 ABS he's hitting .291 with a .334 OBP and his OPS is .703. The interesting thing  for me is the power. Last year he had 62 XBH in 642 Abs and this year just 6 in 128.

[DrungoHazewood]

1 hour ago, Roll Tide said:

Its bad enough that as Orioles fans that we have to live through another rebuild! With the exception of a handful or seasons this team has been in constant rebuild since 1984. Obviously we had the Davey Johnson managed years and a couple with Buck. Plucking out our most exciting offensive player to save some money on  a product that has long been substandard is BS.

I work in business development and subtracting from a product is not a good way to increase customer interest and revenue

Problem is that Villar was bringing tens of fans to the stadium every day, he cost $millions and his contract expired long before the team could plausibly be relevant.  The only effective way to increase customer interest and revenue is to build an organization that wins consistently. 

[DrungoHazewood]

55 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

Even the most conservative guys here @DrungoHazewood & @Frobby admit that Elias overplayed his hand. And perhaps really screwed it up. He was/is a new GM that is learning the role. So you can expect him to make some mistakes.

I guess.  Could he have gotten a slightly better return (i.e. a grade C prospect instead of D) if he hadn't signaled a willingness to non-tender him?  Sure, I guess.  But the difference is way down in the noise.  This is a deal that is low on the overall impact scale.  Essentially no bearing on the makeup of the next good O's team.

[DrungoHazewood]

1 hour ago, Roll Tide said:

Its bad enough that as Orioles fans that we have to live through another rebuild! With the exception of a handful or seasons this team has been in constant rebuild since 1984. Obviously we had the Davey Johnson managed years and a couple with Buck. Plucking out our most exciting offensive player to save some money on  a product that has long been substandard is BS.

I work in business development and subtracting from a product is not a good way to increase customer interest and revenue

The problem is that they've rarely been in a rebuild, they've always been trying to retool with a bad farm system and a middling payroll and almost no international activity.  Rebuild in 1985 was sign Lee Lacy and Fred Lynn so they could celebrate their 36th birthdays on the DL.  Rebuild in 1996 was to ride OPACY sellouts to sign a bunch of 33-year-old free agents for a couple of nice runs followed up by the collapse of one of the oldest teams in MLB history.  Rebuild in 2005 was mostly patching together Millars and Jamie Walkers and Jay Paytons and telling everyone Luis Matos and Daniel Cabrera were the next big things.

They never picked a direction and drove towards it.  It was always we'll draft better next time, and we'll sign Mark Teixeira and Prince Fielder, or we'll tell all the minor leaguers to take the first pitch since Moneyball was all about walking, and the cavalry will be here any day, just as soon as one of them can get through three starts at Norfolk without imploding.  The Orioles were a mess for 30 years because they had no organizational philosophy, they were always behind in advancements, and they were always penny pinching everywhere except MLB payroll, where they did just enough to claim they weren't the Rays or the Marlins.

The team under Mike Elias has a clearer vision of where they want to go and how they're going to get there than any Orioles team since Earl was the manager.