Tracking Ex Oriole Thread

[LA2]

2 hours ago, eddie83 said:

I will say the article explained things much better. I can see why Manny was a little bothered. 

I also don’t know the protocol for those types of situations. Maybe the Orioles didn’t feel right telling him where he was going if somehow it fell apart. The other part sounds like to me they never called him back earlier in his career because, and this is just a guess, they knew what he was asking and weren’t willing to touch it.  

Clearly they blew their chance early on.  

Let's stop blowing it!!

[Lucky_13]

I think it highlights the real mistake of not trying to lockdown your elite players early. Like after their first year or two. 

Its risky but its either that or pay 300 million which was never gonna happen.

And it sounds like they had a chance to do that with Manny and chose not to. 

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

10 hours ago, Philip said:

Speaking of interviews, I really wish somebody would reach out to Dan and or buck and see about arranging a “what went wrong” interview. I doubt it will happen, but I’d sure like to know what they have to say.

I would love to see Dan or another warehouse insider write a book about behind the scenes from 2012 to 2018. Get the skinny on Davis signing, how close was the team to signing Manny to an early extension, etc. 

[InsideCoroner]

14 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

 

You guys have an issue with Floor Jansen?

 

If I was Floor, I’m not sure if I’d feel honored by that or not. I mean, if a bunch are in her house, is she allowed in good conscience to kill them? 

[sportsfan8703]

14 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

Neither did Davis or Trumbo.

You add together the Davis and Trumbo deals you think Manny bites?

7/161 + 3/37, so lets say 8/198.  You think 25M a year while buying out a couple years of arbitration gets it done?

I agree. I don’t think DD wanted Davis or Trumbo back. Our power structure of Brady, Buck, PA, AJ, made those choices. I’m not saying DD would’ve offered Manny that deal, but he would’ve had more room to work with. With two arb years left, Manny takes that deal. 

[tntoriole]

2 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

I agree. I don’t think DD wanted Davis or Trumbo back. Our power structure of Brady, Buck, PA, AJ, made those choices. I’m not saying DD would’ve offered Manny that deal, but he would’ve had more room to work with. With two arb years left, Manny takes that deal. 

Adam had zip to do with it.  

[sportsfan8703]

6 minutes ago, tntoriole said:

Adam had zip to do with it.  

AJ met with PA directly and then Davis was signed. I’d say that’s a big part. 

[Frobby]

22 hours ago, DrungoHazewood said:

Lots of players with Yaz' resume managed to carve out a 7-year MLB career.  

Well, “lots” is something of an exaggeration.   Yaz debuted in the majors at 28.275.     I took a look at 2002-13 and gathered this data:

- 2,361 players debuted in this period.    Of those, only 383 (16.2%) were 27+ years old, and only 137 (5.8%) were as old as Yaz or older.    

- Of the 27+ group, only 55 players (14.4%) played a game in the majors in the 7th season including their debut year.

- Of the 28.275+ group, only 12 players (8.8%) played in a game in the 7th season following their debut year.   

Moreover, if you actually drill down on those 12 players:

- 6 of them were from Japan or Cuba, so their entry to the majors was delayed for that reason.    

- 10 of the 12 were pitchers, 7 of whom were primarily relief pitchers.    

In that period, the only US-born position player who debuted older than Yaz and played 7 years in the majors is Erik Kratz, a backup catcher.   As you might expect, he has bounced around between the majors and the minors numerous times, and coming into this season had accumulated 4.156 years of major league service despite playing in parts of 9 (now 10) major league seasons.    

In short, it’s not at all likely that Yaz will be in the majors in 2025.     

[tntoriole]

3 hours ago, sportsfan8703 said:

AJ met with PA directly and then Davis was signed. I’d say that’s a big part. 

Your assumption is that the old man listened.  I disagree that he did or that AJ had any impact at all.  Peter Angelos did what Peter Angelos wanted to do.  Yes, Adam expressed very publically that he wanted Davis, Markakis, O’Day signed, David Price pursued, etc etc.   Buck said it in a more veiled and sophisticated way for PR purposes as he knew his role.  Brady never really said squat publically because he was a behind the scenes guy who had no official spokesman role.  Dan was Dan...Mr. Oblique, clearly not his call, but not somebody, after his Toronto dalliance, who was in any position to influence or advocate a different view with the old man. 

Peter Angelos knew that Adam Jones was his employee, and was just a player, and knew Buck and DD and Brady were his employees too.   Period.   The deal was done by Peter Angelos and nobody else. 

[DrungoHazewood]

50 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Well, “lots” is something of an exaggeration.   Yaz debuted in the majors at 28.275.     I took a look at 2002-13 and gathered this data:

- 2,361 players debuted in this period.    Of those, only 383 (16.2%) were 27+ years old, and only 137 (5.8%) were as old as Yaz or older.    

- Of the 27+ group, only 55 players (14.4%) played a game in the majors in the 7th season including their debut year.

- Of the 28.275+ group, only 12 players (8.8%) played in a game in the 7th season following their debut year.   

Moreover, if you actually drill down on those 12 players:

- 6 of them were from Japan or Cuba, so their entry to the majors was delayed for that reason.    

- 10 of the 12 were pitchers, 7 of whom were primarily relief pitchers.    

In that period, the only US-born position player who debuted older than Yaz and played 7 years in the majors is Erik Kratz, a backup catcher.   As you might expect, he has bounced around between the majors and the minors numerous times, and coming into this season had accumulated 4.156 years of major league service despite playing in parts of 9 (now 10) major league seasons.    

In short, it’s not at all likely that Yaz will be in the majors in 2025.     

Excellent research.  But "lots" is subjective.  I bet if I move the dates back a few decades or centuries I could find enough to make my statement technically true. 

[AceKing]

17 hours ago, Philip said:

Speaking of interviews, I really wish somebody would reach out to Dan and or buck and see about arranging a “what went wrong” interview. I doubt it will happen, but I’d sure like to know what they have to say.

They would probably just blame each other.

[LookinUp]

Oh snap. Frobby and Drungo head-to-head in message board theater. Frobby got the tko on this one. I look forward to the rematch. lol. 

[DrungoHazewood]

@Frobby, not trying to disprove your solid research, I'm just curious about old rookies. There have been 121 players who bb-ref classified as rookies at the age of 27 or older, who had 2+ win rookie seasons.  If you stretch the definition of a Yaz-like player to someone who only briefly played prior to age 27 you get a lot of hits.  Like Lew Ford, who had 83 PAs at 26, a 4-win season as a 27-year-old rookie, and several glorious months as a 2012 Oriole hero at 35.

Mike Aviles was a 27-year-old debutant who hit .325, and then had a 10-year-career.

Randy Milligan had just over 100 PAs at 25 and 26 before busting out with the 1989 Orioles at 27.

Garrett Jones crossed the 100-PA threshold as a 28-year-old, and ended up with 122 homers in an eight-year career.

Davey Lopes made his MLB debut at 27 and ended up with 577 stolen bases.

Scott Posednik had 31 MLB PAs prior to his age 27 rookie season where he hit .314 with 43 steals.

Minor league star Ike Boone (hit .400+ four times in the minors) hit .337 as a 27-year-old rookie in 1924, and .330 the following year.  The rest of his MLB career he had less than 200 PAs.

George Stone had two PAs prior to his 1905, age-28 rookie campaign where he led the league in hits.  The next year he led the league in BA, OBP, SLG, OPS, and total bases.  Seven year career.  Maybe the most obscure 20th century player who once led the league practically everything.

Hyper-annoying Nats announcer FP Santangelo made his debut at 27, rookie at 28, played seven years.

Rich Amaral had a 10-year career after debuting at 29 and losing his rookie eligibility at 31.

David Newhan was a 30-year-old rookie.

And I'd be remiss if I didn't mention Wagon Tongue Bill Keister.  Brief trials with the '96 and '98 Orioles.  As a 27-year-old rookie in '99 for the last NL Orioles he hit .329 with 16 triples. I think he got his nickname because he moved around about as well as a big honkin' iron-and-wood wagon tongue.  Although he stole 30+ bases multiple times, even under the modern, 1897-on definition.

[Hallas]

3 hours ago, DrungoHazewood said:

@Frobby, not trying to disprove your solid research, I'm just curious about old rookies. There have been 121 players who bb-ref classified as rookies at the age of 27 or older, who had 2+ win rookie seasons.  If you stretch the definition of a Yaz-like player to someone who only briefly played prior to age 27 you get a lot of hits.  Like Lew Ford, who had 83 PAs at 26, a 4-win season as a 27-year-old rookie, and several glorious months as a 2012 Oriole hero at 35.

Mike Aviles was a 27-year-old debutant who hit .325, and then had a 10-year-career.

Randy Milligan had just over 100 PAs at 25 and 26 before busting out with the 1989 Orioles at 27.

Garrett Jones crossed the 100-PA threshold as a 28-year-old, and ended up with 122 homers in an eight-year career.

Davey Lopes made his MLB debut at 27 and ended up with 577 stolen bases.

Scott Posednik had 31 MLB PAs prior to his age 27 rookie season where he hit .314 with 43 steals.

Minor league star Ike Boone (hit .400+ four times in the minors) hit .337 as a 27-year-old rookie in 1924, and .330 the following year.  The rest of his MLB career he had less than 200 PAs.

George Stone had two PAs prior to his 1905, age-28 rookie campaign where he led the league in hits.  The next year he led the league in BA, OBP, SLG, OPS, and total bases.  Seven year career.  Maybe the most obscure 20th century player who once led the league practically everything.

Hyper-annoying Nats announcer FP Santangelo made his debut at 27, rookie at 28, played seven years.

Rich Amaral had a 10-year career after debuting at 29 and losing his rookie eligibility at 31.

David Newhan was a 30-year-old rookie.

And I'd be remiss if I didn't mention Wagon Tongue Bill Keister.  Brief trials with the '96 and '98 Orioles.  As a 27-year-old rookie in '99 for the last NL Orioles he hit .329 with 16 triples. I think he got his nickname because he moved around about as well as a big honkin' iron-and-wood wagon tongue.  Although he stole 30+ bases multiple times, even under the modern, 1897-on definition.

Well this is a trip down Memory Lane.  I had always seen Milligan as a player that was woefully underappreciated as an MLB ballplayer.  It looks like he was also woefully underappreciated as a minor league prospect.  He OPSed .877 in a 1/2 season of AA as a 22 year old, and they rewarded him by making him repeat an entire season in AA, where he OPSed .870.  Then he gets bounced around as a 24 year old, and OPSes 1.033 as a 25 year old in AAA.  I can only guess that this was because he wasn't a power hitter, so they assumed his ability to draw walks wouldn't translate to MLB.  My how times have changed.  A player, even a 1B, OPSing 1.033 in AAA and not getting a call-up would be seen as criminal today.

[weams]

4 hours ago, LookinUp said:

Oh snap. Frobby and Drungo head-to-head in message board theater. Frobby got the tko on this one. I look forward to the rematch. lol. 

Drungo did give the quiver while on the mat though. It may have been a straight KO if not called early.