What to do at SS?

[owknows]

7 minutes ago, wildcard said:

You are making more sense than SG.   I like your perspective.   Hope you find a way to stay.

I didn't mean move on from here.

I meant move on from interacting with someone who is needlessly antagonistic

[weams]

5 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

Going out of the box here... Move Mountcastle back to SS where he played in the minors! They said Cal was too big to play SS. What do we have to lose? 

Mountcastle wasn't just too big. He was not good there. 

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, owknows said:

I didn't mean move on from here.

I meant move on from interacting with someone who is needlessly antagonistic

I find the /ignore feature to be very useful.  I'm sure the folks that have used it to block my own posts from their viewing would agree.

[Moose Milligan]

1 minute ago, Sports Guy said:

I don’t see the point in comparing Nunez and Valaika.  That’s apples and oranges.  And Valaika isn’t going to be 1.5M cheaper either.

Bannon is a better option because he’s cheaper and younger and carries more of an upside. He absolutely should be starting over Valaika.  It’s because of the roster construction that that’s true.  
 

And 28 isn’t over the hill but it is an age where, generally speaking, you are what you are.  You don’t usually all of a sudden get much better and Valaika has been a below replacement level player in the majors.  Giving him everyday at bats to show he’s something that he’s not makes little to no  sense to me.

Both guys are imperfect players with similar profiles.  Mediocre to bad defense, some pop, low on base percentage. 

Again, some players need consistent at bats to get better.  It's the same argument people love to make against yo-yoing players up and down to the minors. If we're going to argue about how it's bad for players to be jerked up and down between the minors and majors, what are we arguing against Valaika for?

Don't get me wrong, I see the issues with his game. I get where you're coming from, raging every day about the players we have and the players we don't have.  I'm expecting this team to lose between 85-100 games.  Who they do it with, I really don't care, so long as there's a plan in place to have an every day SS in 2022 and beyond.  Quite frankly, I don't care who they trot out at SS this year.  I'd like it if they'd be able to get a future SS in place before OD 2021 but I don't think that's going to happen.

[Roll Tide]

7 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

I don’t see the point in comparing Nunez and Valaika.  That’s apples and oranges.  And Valaika isn’t going to be 1.5M cheaper either.

Bannon is a better option because he’s cheaper and younger and carries more of an upside. He absolutely should be starting over Valaika.  It’s because of the roster construction that that’s true.  
 

And 28 isn’t over the hill but it is an age where, generally speaking, you are what you are.  You don’t usually all of a sudden get much better and Valaika has been a below replacement level player in the majors.  Giving him everyday at bats to show he’s something that he’s not makes little to no  sense to me.

What would lead you to believe Bannon is ready to hit MLB pitching? He hit .255 at mostly AA in 2019 and did not play in 2020. I think thats setting him up for failure.

[wildcard]

45 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

Valaika can play just about anywhere. Personally I would sign Robertson (play him at 2B or 3B regularly), Play Valiaka at the other position, Cut Ruiz who cant hit, and keep Sanchez as a UTI because thats all he is as well.

I dont know what you are trying to saying in the bolded part! as I mentioned, he's a good risk IMO. He's 23 and can be part of the future, has a high OBP which is something we need, and can likely be traded in a year or two if he's able to maintain or improve his batting average in the .265.280 range. His minor league number indicate that possible. And he really only has 1 1/2 seasons worth of at bats.

 

 

He plays 2021 at 27.

[wildcard]

8 minutes ago, owknows said:

I didn't mean move on from here.

I meant move on from interacting with someone who is needlessly antagonistic

You mean annoying him?  That is rich.

[jerios55]

10 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

A hundred games.

Would that be different than having Iglesias there?  (and no I'm not endorsing the move)

Was there anything from alternate camp about Martin?  His rule V year his D wasn't great, but he got higher marks when picked.  I would guess he gets at least some time at SS this year after the trade of Iglesias and it would be good to know if there was some progress seen.

[Sports Guy]

Just now, Moose Milligan said:

Both guys are imperfect players with similar profiles.  Mediocre to bad defense, some pop, low on base percentage. 

Again, some players need consistent at bats to get better.  It's the same argument people love to make against yo-yoing players up and down to the minors. If we're going to argue about how it's bad for players to be jerked up and down between the minors and majors, what are we arguing against Valaika for?

Don't get me wrong, I see the issues with his game. I get where you're coming from, raging every day about the players we have and the players we don't have.  I'm expecting this team to lose between 85-100 games.  Who they do it with, I really don't care, so long as there's a plan in place to have an every day SS in 2022 and beyond.  Quite frankly, I don't care who they trot out at SS this year.  I'd like it if they'd be able to get a future SS in place before OD 2021 but I don't think that's going to happen.

First of all, Nunez doesn’t have “some pop”. He’s a good power hitter.  He has shown, over a larger SS, that he can basically be an 800 OPS guy with that power.  
 

And that’s fine if you don’t care.  You don’t care about a lot of things and don’t think the team is ever competing again, so I don’t even know why you feel the need to follow them.  

That being said, while it likely won’t matter who does start in those positions, it doesn’t mean you do dumb things.  Playing a go nowhere player everyday isn’t a smart thing to do.  Your alternative may be also playing a go nowhere player but at least that go nowhere player is 4-5 years younger and could improve.  Valaika, as an everyday player, is very likely to be exposed, benched and potentially DFA’ed.  
 

I would rather put him in the role he should have because that’s the smarter and more logical thing to do.

[Roll Tide]

4 minutes ago, wildcard said:

He play 2021 at 27.

Your right ....I was looking at his debut age in the BBref bio. Okay so still young enough now and in 2-3 years should he be good enough to keep on a contender 

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, jerios55 said:

Would that be different than having Iglesias there?  (and no I'm not endorsing the move)

Was there anything from alternate camp about Martin?  His rule V year his D wasn't great, but he got higher marks when picked.  I would guess he gets at least some time at SS this year after the trade of Iglesias and it would be good to know if there was some progress seen.

I think that at this point in the process the emphasis should move away from intentionally weakening the ML roster in order to lower payroll and improve draft position into attempting to field a competitive team. 

If you need top 5 draft picks for 4+ years running you are doing something wrong.

[Roll Tide]

1 minute ago, RZNJ said:

He hit very well the last month up in AAA but I agree that it's a reach to assume he would be ready to produce.  But I wouldn't discount it.   He's got a shot.

Yeah .... a shot is accurate. I wouldn’t say a good shot. But they lived through 2 seasons of Ruiz struggling to hit his weight so why not.

I really think part of the plan is to buy guys with potential to deal them later. I don’t see any value for Sanchez, Arias, or Ruiz in that regard and was/am suggesting Robertson and Erick Mejia for that reason.

[eddie83]

I am not worried about how well Bannon would hit. Question is whether his glove will play. I can live with offensive issues if he doesn’t embarrass himself in the field. 

[Roll Tide]

13 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I think that at this point in the process the emphasis should move away from intentionally weakening the ML roster in order to lower payroll and improve draft position into attempting to field a competitive team. 

If you need top 5 draft picks for 4+ years running you are doing something wrong.

I agree with the premise of this post ....but it seems that is what Elias is doing. Did you reach his comment in Rich’s article?

 

Quote

We continue to view the accumulation of talent as a priority and the reality is when you are in a phase like we are, anytime you sign a free agent, it’s in the back of your mind that the trade possibilities exist with that player,” Elias said.

 

Quote

So who plays shortstop in 2021?

“I think we’ve got work left to do there,” Elias said.

“Part of the risk with a trade like this when it comes to the stability at the major league level that we desire is we’re now looking for infield upgrades. There are a lot of good players out on the market and we’ll have a chance to explore those and try to be opportunistic and smart again like when we found Iggy. So we’ve got some work to do. It does make our job this offseason a little harder. I feel like there’s going to be other moves necessitated because of this trade, but to us it was more important to get the young pitching prospects back and when we look at the market we figure we’ll have some opportunities to reinforce the group that we already have on the roster.”

Quote

Quote

Either coming up on the last year or they’re going into a phase of arbitration where either our team or others are not willing to enter into that process with them. And it makes sense in every case you’re able to, especially when you’re rebuilding, to try to see some long-term value coming back as these guys near the end of their stints with the team.

Quote

I think it’s accurate to say we’re still in the phase of accumulating talent and trying to rise to the top of young talent,” Elias said. “We want to have the best young talent in baseball. I think we’re going to need that to compete in this division. The baseline that we have, while it’s improving and improving rapidly, there’s still room to go. We’re setting a really high bar for where we want the foundational structure to be for our farm system and you see and admire the work the team in our own division, the Rays, that are able to self-sustain because they do such a good job of scouting and player development.

 

[Moose Milligan]

5 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

First of all, Nunez doesn’t have “some pop”. He’s a good power hitter.  He has shown, over a larger SS, that he can basically be an 800 OPS guy with that power.  
 

And that’s fine if you don’t care.  You don’t care about a lot of things and don’t think the team is ever competing again, so I don’t even know why you feel the need to follow them.  

That being said, while it likely won’t matter who does start in those positions, it doesn’t mean you do dumb things.  Playing a go nowhere player everyday isn’t a smart thing to do.  Your alternative may be also playing a go nowhere player but at least that go nowhere player is 4-5 years younger and could improve.  Valaika, as an everyday player, is very likely to be exposed, benched and potentially DFA’ed.  
 

I would rather put him in the role he should have because that’s the smarter and more logical thing to do.

Yep, I don't think this team is ever competing again.  It'll be interesting to see if they can figure it out though, but I don't think they can.  I'm really here hoping Angelos sells sometime, then I'll have a bit more hope.

Nunez, has not shown over a larger SS that he can basically be an OPS guy.  He's never OPS'd .800 for a full season.  If you're going to round up .771 and .781 to "basically .800" (as I know you will) then fine.

I'm taking the Valaika position here not because I think it's a good one, but because it's obviously getting under your skin and I'm bored.  Again, the roster is full of go-nowhere players, fringe prospects and quad-A guys.  If Elias can't produce a significantly better player to start every day at SS for this season, I certainly don't care which mix of go-nowhere guys is out there, so long as there's a plan in place to get a long term solution. 

I don't really care if one go-nowhere player is 28 and one is 23, especially if that 28 year old hasn't been given consistent at bats throughout his career when we can all agree that getting consistent at bats is paramount to a players development.  Give the 28 year old half a season to see what he can do, if he's not producing it's not like the 23 year old has gone anywhere.

For the record, if Valaika is traded or cut tomorrow, I'm not whining about it.