A bunch of moves just announced

[Philip]

3 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

@Tony-OH  if this isn’t permitted, my mistake (and please let me know if I need to delete this post) but I wrote this article yesterday (before the decision of sending Akin down) for ESR about why he should be in the rotation.  
 

People keep asking why I think it’s a dumb decision.  This is why:

https://eutawstreetreport.com/keegan-akin-should-be-in-opening-day-rotation/

I read this and you’re missing the point. He was bad in the spring. That’s not necessarily a dealbreaker, but the way he was bad apparently was. He was wild and ineffective. The attitude question is significant. On a team going nowhere, you don’t promote the lazy guys, period. And he’s a marginal pitcher anyway. Several other guys have more potential and are as close as he is. Would you rather have Akin or Lowther/Baumann? 
I am pretty confident the decision to demote Akin was made after LeBlanc was released, and that is why they brought LeBlanc back on a BETTER contract within 24 hours. 
Regarding Fry: yes I agree he’s been terrible this spring and I have advocated sending him down in favor of Greene or Sceroler, and letting someone else be the extra lefty in the pen. But Fry is staying, I guess. And again, the coaches know things we don’t. We don’t know the details of their reasoning.
I have certainly called decisions idiotic before, and it wasn’t hyperbole. But this decision isn’t idiotic, and it’s not wrong, either.

[Frobby]

Hyde on Akin being optioned: “We just thought that Keegan needed a little bit more time. We still think really highly of him. Talking to him this afternoon, it was about just being a little sharper with his pitches. Command wasn’t quite there. Being able to locate to both sides of the plate. Like to see the improvement in his off-speed stuff, being able to land it for strikes. It was a little bit of a scuffle for him this spring. He’s going to have time to go down there. And when he came to us last year, he was really ready to go and pounded the strike zone. Just looking for him to go down there and do what he did last year. And that’s find a nice rhythm in his delivery and attack the strike zone.”

https://www.masnsports.com/steve-melewski/2021/03/jorge-lopez-makes-strong-case-for-rotation-spot.html

[Legend_Of_Joey]

10 minutes ago, Philip said:

I read this and you’re missing the point. He was bad in the spring. That’s not necessarily a dealbreaker, but the way he was bad apparently was. He was wild and ineffective. The attitude question is significant. On a team going nowhere, you don’t promote the lazy guys, period. And he’s a marginal pitcher anyway. Several other guys have more potential and are as close as he is. Would you rather have Akin or Lowther/Baumann? 
I am pretty confident the decision to demote Akin was made after LeBlanc was released, and that is why they brought LeBlanc back on a BETTER contract within 24 hours. 
Regarding Fry: yes I agree he’s been terrible this spring and I have advocated sending him down in favor of Greene or Sceroler, and letting someone else be the extra lefty in the pen. But Fry is staying, I guess. And again, the coaches know things we don’t. We don’t know the details of their reasoning.
I have certainly called decisions idiotic before, and it wasn’t hyperbole. But this decision isn’t idiotic, and it’s not wrong, either.

Agreed. The other aspect is, Akin struggled with command in AAA in 2019. He had a lot of “high pitch count” innings because he wasn’t able to put people away quickly and also issued a good amount of walks. So it’s not like he suddenly lost his touch.

[Sports Guy]

1 hour ago, Beef Supreme said:

Was he "unlucky" or did he get hit hard? Getting barreled isn't noise.

You claimed "His career in the minors says he is ready to be here" and that "I can’t think of many more worthless stats than WHiP in 25 innings" yet you cite components of WHIP to claim he was "unlucky." Which is it - do the 25 IPs in 2020 mean something or not? Or do they only mean something when they support Akin and are "worthless" when they do not?

All the while, you are refusing to acknowledge that his 112 innings of minor league pitching at a 1.513 WHIP is a worthwhile stat that speaks volumes about his inability to keep runners off base. Of IL pitchers with 100 IPs in 2019, Keegan's WHIP ranks 19th out of 23 total pitchers. 

Akin ranked 17th of 33 pitchers in ERA of the IL among pitchers with 15 starts and 80 IPs. Of pitchers with 100 IPs, his ERA ranked 11th of 23. Only by conveniently upping the total to 112 IPs does he rank 6th, since he threw 112.1 innings. And that's out of 15 pitchers. Not very impressive. Plus, that's not a valid way of ranking. I am thinking about fruit all of sudden...a sweet, tart, juicy fruit.

2020 was an aberration and pitchers did not get in their usual game-work. Pitchers will likely be held back in total IPs from what we would have expected had all MLB and MiLB games been played last year in an effort to reduce injuries. Pitchers with options are prime targets to get sent out at various times through the season so the big team can spread the innings over a lot of arms. And that's not "idiotic."

 

Well first of all, you are the one who brought up his WHiP..and yea, I dismiss the stat for 25 innings (I actually dismiss the stat period) but if you want to argue it, you should argue it within the context of all the data and you failed in doing that.  Hits allowed wasn’t an issue for him in the minors, walks were.  So, if the walks were better and his BABiP was extremely high, I’m going to chalk that up to unlucky and I think most people would agree.  But again, it’s 25 innings and there is a ton of noise in that sample size.

 

I didn’t  up any total.  I just looked at the Intl league stat sheet and that’s what it said.  I didn’t manipulate data.  I couldn’t do it on the site I saw even if I wanted to.

And yes, the walk rate has been poor. I already said that.  Why do you keep mentioning it?  
 

He’s about to be 26.  He is what he is.  He’s going to get better or he’s not.  He’s not found to learn more in the minors than he can here at this point.  The Orioles are actively trying to lose, so it doesn’t matter if he takes his lumps up here.  He is being replaced by a pitcher who has never been good and has no future unless his stuff plays up in the pen.  So yea, that’s idiotic.  You don’t think so?  Good for you, glad to hear it.  I’m sure if the Os start Akin on April 7, you will be upset and slamming them for the decision.

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Well first of all, you are the one who brought up his WHiP..and yea, I dismiss the stat for 25 innings (I actually dismiss the stat period) but if you want to argue it, you should argue it within the context of all the data and you failed in doing that.  Hits allowed wasn’t an issue for him in the minors, walks were.  So, if the walks were better and his BABiP was extremely high, I’m going to chalk that up to unlucky and I think most people would agree.  But again, it’s 25 innings and there is a ton of noise in that sample size.

 

I didn’t  up any total.  I just looked at the Intl league stat sheet and that’s what it said.  I didn’t manipulate data.  I couldn’t do it on the site I saw even if I wanted to.

And yes, the walk rate has been poor. Bu already said that.  Why do you keep mentioning it?  
 

He’s about to be 26.  He is what he is.  He’s going to get better or he’s not.  He’s not found to learn more in the minors than he can here at this point.  The Orioles are actively trying to lose, so it doesn’t matter if he takes his lumps up here.  He is being replaced by a pitcher who has never been good and has no future unless his stuff plays up in the pen.  So yea, that’s idiotic.  You don’t think so?  Good for you, glad to hear it.  I’m sure if the Os start Akin on April 7, you will be upset and slamming them for the decision.

I haven't looked into the data so maybe I'm way off here but he strikes me as someone who doesn't trust himself to throw strikes.

I think he's one of those guys that get by in the minors by pitching around the center of the plate hoping hitters chase either balls or pitcher's strikes.

That doesn't play well in the majors.

[Sports Guy]

1 hour ago, Philip said:

I read this and you’re missing the point. He was bad in the spring. That’s not necessarily a dealbreaker, but the way he was bad apparently was. He was wild and ineffective. The attitude question is significant. On a team going nowhere, you don’t promote the lazy guys, period. And he’s a marginal pitcher anyway. Several other guys have more potential and are as close as he is. Would you rather have Akin or Lowther/Baumann? 
I am pretty confident the decision to demote Akin was made after LeBlanc was released, and that is why they brought LeBlanc back on a BETTER contract within 24 hours. 
Regarding Fry: yes I agree he’s been terrible this spring and I have advocated sending him down in favor of Greene or Sceroler, and letting someone else be the extra lefty in the pen. But Fry is staying, I guess. And again, the coaches know things we don’t. We don’t know the details of their reasoning.
I have certainly called decisions idiotic before, and it wasn’t hyperbole. But this decision isn’t idiotic, and it’s not wrong, either.

Yes, if you want to put a lot on meaningless ST games, I agree that it was the right decision.

Its just dumb to do that especially this year because it’s not like he can get immediate game action.  He has to wait over a month to pitch in a real game.

[Sports Guy]

Just now, Can_of_corn said:

I haven't looked into the data so maybe I'm way off here but he strikes me as someone who doesn't trust himself to throw strikes.

I think he's one of those guys that get by in the minors by pitching around the center of the plate hoping hitters chase either balls or pitcher's strikes.

That doesn't play well in the majors.

Very possible.

I tend to side with those that feel he is a reliever long term.  He can be a 90-120 inning opener type guy.  That may be the best case for him.
 

I just want to find that out and no better time than right now.

[Moose Milligan]

RE: Akin, this is a bunch of handwringing.  He'll probably be the first or second guy called up. He'll have plenty of opportunity to show that he is what he is.  

 

[Can_of_corn]

5 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Very possible.

I tend to side with those that feel he is a reliever long term.  He can be a 90-120 inning opener type guy.  That may be the best case for him.
 

I just want to find that out and no better time than right now.

I think that the brain trust has already made that determination.

[Beef Supreme]

49 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

’s about to be 26.  He is what he is.  He’s going to get better or he’s not.  He’s not found to learn more in the minors than he can here at this point.  The Orioles are actively trying to lose, so it doesn’t matter if he takes his lumps up here.  He is being replaced by a pitcher who has never been good and has no future unless his stuff plays up in the pen.  So yea, that’s idiotic.  You don’t think so?  Good for you, glad to hear it.  I’m sure if the Os start Akin on April 7, you will be upset and slamming them for the decision.

Ridiculous. At no point did I even imply this. Your claim is intellectually dishonesty and a fallacy. I trust the professionals working with the players. Truly an "idiotic" thing to say. And I mean that in the way that since the word "id" is the basis for that word, you are making the argument all about you. 

[Sports Guy]

32 minutes ago, Beef Supreme said:

Ridiculous. At no point did I even imply this. Your claim is intellectually dishonesty and a fallacy. I trust the professionals working with the players. Truly an "idiotic" thing to say. And I mean that in the way that since the word "id" is the basis for that word, you are making the argument all about you. 

Ok..so, while you believe the decision is correct to send him down right now, you think the decision would be right and that he would have “figured things out” in 10 days?  
 

You believe in the idea of “I go with what they tell me”?
 

 

[Philip]

2 hours ago, Frobby said:

Hyde on Akin being optioned: “We just thought that Keegan needed a little bit more time. We still think really highly of him. Talking to him this afternoon, it was about just being a little sharper with his pitches. Command wasn’t quite there. Being able to locate to both sides of the plate. Like to see the improvement in his off-speed stuff, being able to land it for strikes. It was a little bit of a scuffle for him this spring. He’s going to have time to go down there. And when he came to us last year, he was really ready to go and pounded the strike zone. Just looking for him to go down there and do what he did last year. And that’s find a nice rhythm in his delivery and attack the strike zone.”

https://www.masnsports.com/steve-melewski/2021/03/jorge-lopez-makes-strong-case-for-rotation-spot.html

I understand why they always sugarcoat the things they say, but just once, I wish a manager would say, “we demoted him because he sucks. If he wants to be on the big team he’s gotta pitch better.”

[Frobby]

3 hours ago, Philip said:

I understand why they always sugarcoat the things they say, but just once, I wish a manager would say, “we demoted him because he sucks. If he wants to be on the big team he’s gotta pitch better.”

I think Hyde’s quote is accurate.   Akin doesn’t suck, and he will be back once he gets his command sharpened up to previous levels.  

[Tony-OH]

9 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

1). Yea, I did say that...but I also said that the exception is if you are sending down young players who are ready to be here and should be here.  They are presumably giving his rotation spot to Lopez, which is horrendous.

2) Akin commented that his last side session/B game (whatever terminology he used) went pretty well.

3)  I’m just wondering, since so many people here seem to be putting so much on an extreme SSS and meaningless ST, if they are going to be as upset about Fry making the team as much as they are defending Akin not making it.  

We have also heard all spring how poor the defense has been...but I guess that also goes out the window for Akin as well?  

No one is doing that, that is what you are perceiving. I don't have an issue with a guy having message sent to him. When you show up out of shape (even for Akin's low standards) then you can't command at all when you pitch, then yes, I have no issue with him getting sent down.

Hopefully it will be message received and he will go down and pitch well and when an opportunity presents itself he takes advantage. You also have to realize that I don' consider Akin one of the top starting pitching candidates in the system. I think his best role will be as multi inning reliever, but was certainly willing to give him an opportunity to prove that assessment wrong while it really doesn't matter.

Now, if I thought Lopez or potentially LeBlanc got a spot over him based solely on his spring, then yes, I would agree with you, but when a young pitcher is given a golden opportunity to make a club and doesn't work hard all offseason to show up in the best shape and ready to go, I wonder where his dedication is at and whether that's the kind of guy you will be able to count on every five days.

Akin has always been a guy who struggles to be consistent and uses way too many pitches to get through his innings, hence why I like him better as a reliever. He's got major league swing and miss stuff when he's on, but I have zero concerns with sending a message while also realizing they need to cover a lot of innings this year so the chances of the same five who start the season in the rotation, ending there is slim to none.

Akin will get his opportunities if he pitches to his abilities. I would not be surprised if Akin doesn't end up with 20-25 starts this year when it's all said and done. I also think he'll be a guy with a mid-high four ERA as a starter.

[Sports Guy]

32 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

No one is doing that, that is what you are perceiving. I don't have an issue with a guy having message sent to him. When you show up out of shape (even for Akin's low standards) then you can't command at all when you pitch, then yes, I have no issue with him getting sent down.

Hopefully it will be message received and he will go down and pitch well and when an opportunity presents itself he takes advantage. You also have to realize that I don' consider Akin one of the top starting pitching candidates in the system. I think his best role will be as multi inning reliever, but was certainly willing to give him an opportunity to prove that assessment wrong while it really doesn't matter.

Now, if I thought Lopez or potentially LeBlanc got a spot over him based solely on his spring, then yes, I would agree with you, but when a young pitcher is given a golden opportunity to make a club and doesn't work hard all offseason to show up in the best shape and ready to go, I wonder where his dedication is at and whether that's the kind of guy you will be able to count on every five days.

Akin has always been a guy who struggles to be consistent and uses way too many pitches to get through his innings, hence why I like him better as a reliever. He's got major league swing and miss stuff when he's on, but I have zero concerns with sending a message while also realizing they need to cover a lot of innings this year so the chances of the same five who start the season in the rotation, ending there is slim to none.

Akin will get his opportunities if he pitches to his abilities. I would not be surprised if Akin doesn't end up with 20-25 starts this year when it's all said and done. I also think he'll be a guy with a mid-high four ERA as a starter.

Tony, the only issue I have with this is a week or 2 ago, you had Akin in your rotation.  
 

At that point, you would have known about him being out of shape (I still can’t find info on that?)

So, him pitching poorly (you did mention as long they didn’t implode) has to be what you are basing this off of?  (Correct me if I’m wrong??)

The Os, publicly, definitely are basing it on performance.  
 

I take issue with that and I especially take issue with it because Lopez is likely getting his spot.  As I said, his penalty is you are the 5th starter.  You don’t start until the 7th and then you don’t start again for over a week after that and then it’s a while after that.  He can work side sessions with Holt in the mean time and lose weight, if he hasn’t already.  
 

I would rather him work with Holt than whoever is going to be at camp while he plays on no real games for a month.