The baserunning thread 2021

[Frobby]

Use this thread for good/bad baserunning plays by the O’s.

Game 16, April 18

In the 10th, Maikel Franco started the inning on 2B.   Mountcastle hit a liner into the gap, but Franco wisely waited long enough to see the LF make a an over the shoulder diving catch, tagged and went to 3B.

Next play, Mancini hit a laser that the RF gloved on a short hop, fired home and Franco was tagged a good 5 feet up the 3B line, the ball arriving at the same time as Franco and the C doing a good job to hold onto the ball in a near simultaneous collision.   Franco collided while still standing up and fell from the collision and stayed on the ground awhile, but was able to get up and stay in the game.   

The announcers felt that Franco had no choice but to wait to see if the ball was caught, but I disagree.  He never could have tagged up and scored given where the ball would have been caught, and a catch was very unlikely.    He should have been further down the line.  Until today, I honestly don’t know that I’ve ever seen a 9-2 putout on a ball that wasn’t caught when the runner was at 3B.

Anyway, I think it’s debatable but you have to give the RF and the C a lot of credit for executing the play.  
 

[jdwilde1]

Franco should have been halfway .  The ball was too shallow to tag-up.  Also, the announcers for the Rangers (who are actually at the game unlike the MASN team) stated that Franco should have been halfway and commented that you usually don’t ever see a play at the plate with a runner at third and a hit to the outfield.  

[Moshagge3]

I posted this in the game thread, but a similar play happened on Sunday Night Baseball when Jon Miller was announcing.

Miller wrote in his book that he happened to be discussing the play the next day with Cal Ripken, Jr. Cal argued that it might have been the right play to tag up so that he could score in case Barfield (who had a fantastic arm) caught the ball on a dive. Senior came over and shot down Junior immediately. He said you should always go halfway on a shallow fly ball.

[Oriole1940]

It is remarkable the number of players in the Majors who DO NOT HAVE THE INSTINCTS FOR THE GAME OF BASEBALL.  Some things in the game,  can be improved by practice with good supervision,  but  the player is so much more valuable if he just is instinctively correct on his in game decisions.  So many decisions made by players are not included in the stats that fans drool over.  But if players have that excellent hand/eye coordination they  can hit a baseball,  and that is something the vast majority of  people on the planet cannot do.

  

[Can_of_corn]

6 minutes ago, Oriole1940 said:

It is remarkable the number of players in the Majors who DO NOT HAVE THE INSTINCTS FOR THE GAME OF BASEBALL.  Some things in the game,  can be improved by practice with good supervision,  but  the player is so much more valuable if he just is instinctively correct on his in game decisions.  So many decisions made by players are not included in the stats that fans drool over.  But if players have that excellent hand/eye coordination they  can hit a baseball,  and that is something the vast majority of  people on the planet cannot do.

  

I don't agree.  I don't think instincts as a strength scale as well raw tools.

 

[Beysbol]

Should have been halfway down the line, but whatever. It's the Orioles and my brother told me that Hyde defended Franco on that play. Doesn't surprise me.

[Aristotelian]

So next time pinch run Rio?

[LA2]

2 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

I don't agree.  I don't think instincts as a strength scale as well raw tools.

 

Yeah, hard to see how there could be an instinct (in any useful definition of the term) for a heavily rule-regulated game like baseball. I think the "feel," "knack," etc. for a sport arises from early inculcation and many years of repetition, coaching, and emulation. Even "tools," though necessary and closer to what one might consider innate abilities, can't provide that. In fact, I think that there are just as many times that a "hunch" (the closest I can come at the moment to defining instinct) leads to bad results as good ones, e.g. trying to take an extra base or steal one at the wrong time or in the wrong game situation or all sorts of guesses, such as what type of pitch will be thrown or where a ball is going to be hit, when not based in study or prep. Sometimes a manager's role is to rein in what the player's "instinct" is, such as when a pitcher is convinced they can go longer, but actually should be taken out.

[sportsfan8703]

The ball was in the shadows and dropped like 5 ft outside of the shadows in RF for a hit. I think Franco probably couldn’t see it and got a bad read. A tough L. 

[OFFNY]

17 hours ago, Moshagge3 said:

 

I posted this in the game thread, but a similar play happened on Sunday Night Baseball when Jon Miller was announcing.

 

 

Miller wrote in his book that he happened to be discussing the play the next day with Cal Ripken, Jr. Cal argued that it might have been the right play to tag up, so that he could score in case Barfield (who had a fantastic arm) caught the ball on a dive. The Senior Ripken (Cal's father) came over and shot down Junior immediately. He said that you should always go halfway on a shallow fly ball.

 

o

 

You get the dubious OFFNY-imitation award, for pulling an occurrence out of your ass from many years ago and showing its relevancy to something that just happened now ...... especially since you did it in the game thread, only a minute or two after it happened. 

 

o

[Frobby]

Game 17, April 20

With nobody out and Ruiz on 2B in the 8th, Galvis missed a bunt attempt and Ruiz was caught off balance and hung out to dry when the catcher fired to second, except that the throw was about three feet too high and sailed into CF, allowing Ruiz to avoid the consequence of his mistake and advance to 3B to boot.  

[Philip]

12 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Game 17, April 20

With nobody out and Ruiz on 2B in the 8th, Galvis missed a bunt attempt and Ruiz was caught off balance and hung out to dry when the catcher fired to second, except that the throw was about three feet too high and sailed into CF, allowing Ruiz to avoid the consequence of his mistake and advance to 3B to boot.  

In the box score theres a caught stealing and a picked off. So the play you’re describing is the PO? Or was that different?

I was annoyed at his overall play despite getting two hits.

[Frobby]

3 minutes ago, Philip said:

In the box score theres a caught stealing and a picked off. So the play you’re describing is the PO? Or was that different?

I was annoyed at his overall play despite getting two hits.

That has to be a mistake by the scorekeeper.   If the Marlins had made the play that is how it woukd have been scored, but they didn’t make the play.   

[survivedc]

1 hour ago, Frobby said:

Game 17, April 20

With nobody out and Ruiz on 2B in the 8th, Galvis missed a bunt attempt and Ruiz was caught off balance and hung out to dry when the catcher fired to second, except that the throw was about three feet too high and sailed into CF, allowing Ruiz to avoid the consequence of his mistake and advance to 3B to boot.  

I think there’s a good chance that if the guy covering second catches that ball he still doesn’t get it to 3rd in time to get Ruiz. Poor play by the catcher immediately throwing instead of charging the runner and making him commit.

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

On 4/19/2021 at 2:34 PM, OFFNY said:

o

 

You get the dubious OFFNY-imitation award, for pulling an occurrence out of your ass from many years ago and showing its relevancy to something that just happened now ...... especially since you did it in the game thread, only a minute or two after it happened. 

 

o

I must have been half paying attention because I literally thought this was an OFFNY post until the real OFFNY chimed in.