Adley Rutschman 2021

[Pickles]

It's not the kind of slump that is scary- as others pointed out.

But good.  Let him slump a bit.  Adversity is the greatest teacher.

[Sports Guy]

He is 2 for his last 17 with no walks.  That is his July totals so far.  He had the July 3rd game Adam Pohl talked about.  So, it’s hard to believe that he looked that good in that game and has been terrible the other 3 games this month.  

[interloper]

Keep.

Him.

Down. 

First full year of pro ball. Work stoppage next year. No reason to bring him up in 2021. 

[Can_of_corn]

4 minutes ago, interloper said:

Keep.

Him.

Down. 

First full year of pro ball. Work stoppage next year. No reason to bring him up in 2021. 

Except it's the right thing to do for the player.

If I made my daily bread by being for the worker I'd think I'd actually, you know, be for the worker.

 

[interloper]

20 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Except it's the right thing to do for the player.

If I made my daily bread by being for the worker I'd think I'd actually, you know, be for the worker.

 

I disagree. The right thing for the player is having him play a full season of pro ball to work out the substantial kinks he has from not playing in a long time. And what do we learn by bringing him up for a month and then having him wait another half season while the league/union figure out how to play nice? All we do is burn his clock and amass a tiny sample of useless data. 

[Can_of_corn]

5 minutes ago, interloper said:

I disagree. The right thing for the player is having him play a full season of pro ball to work out the substantial kinks he has from not playing in a long time. And what do we learn by bringing him up for a month and then having him wait another half season while the league/union figure out how to play nice? All we do is burn his clock and amass a tiny sample of useless data. 

How could starting his clock not be in his best interest?

Are you suggesting that if you were in his shoes you wouldn't want to reach free agency a full year earlier?

He's got more walks than strikeouts, what "substantial kinks" are you talking about?

Is he running around the bases in the wrong direction?  Has he forgotten which end of the bat you are supposed to hold?  Does he need to be reminded how many out they have in an inning?

[Ruzious]

32 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Except it's the right thing to do for the player.

If I made my daily bread by being for the worker I'd think I'd actually, you know, be for the worker.

 

I couldn't agree more.  

[MurphDogg]

On 6/30/2021 at 8:15 AM, joelala said:

Yes. Longevity and better defense at an extremely important position. It’s certainly a very interesting debate, but for my money Yadier Molina is the best catcher of this generation. 

Yadier Molina was an above average catcher for ten seasons (2007-2016). He was a great catcher for two seasons (2012-2013). He has played for a long time and has rarely been injured and typically caught 130+ games per season in his prime, which is great.

But the bat wouldn't play anywhere else on the diamond and his biggest skill (pitch framing) will likely be irrelevant in the next 5 years as the question of robot umps is a matter of if rather than when.

Give me Posey 10 times out of ten.

[interloper]

5 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

How could starting his clock not be in his best interest?

Are you suggesting that if you were in his shoes you wouldn't want to reach free agency a full year earlier?

He's got more walks than strikeouts, what "substantial kinks" are you talking about?

Is he running around the bases in the wrong direction?  Has he forgotten which end of the bat you are supposed to hold?  Does he need to be reminded how many out they have in an inning?

I don't really understand. Do you feel this way about every single minor leaguer? It's obviously in all of their best interests to be promoted to the major leagues immediately and have their clocks started, no? They will make more money, have better benefits, etc. I don't see you doing this song and dance for every single player in the minors, so do only the best minor leaguers deserve to have us thinking of their best interests? That's not very pro-player! 

My argument isn't even about his clock though. It's about the fact that he's not destroying AAA. I want him to destroy worlds down there. Make me believe he has outclassed the minor leagues. He hasn't done that, so there's no point in calling him up this year. At a certain point, yes, you call him up regardless of if he's destroying worlds because you just have to. That's next year. 

[Aristotelian]

46 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Except it's the right thing to do for the player.

If I made my daily bread by being for the worker I'd think I'd actually, you know, be for the worker.

 

Elias is not paid by the employees. His responsibility is to the organization. Employers promote people when it is in their interest.

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, interloper said:

I don't really understand. Do you feel this way about every single minor leaguer? It's obviously in all of their best interests to be promoted to the major leagues immediately and have their clocks started, no? They will make more money, have better benefits, etc. I don't see you doing this song and dance for every single player in the minors, so do only the best minor leaguers deserve to have us thinking of their best interests? That's not very pro-player! 

My argument isn't even about his clock though. It's about the fact that he's not destroying AAA. I want him to destroy worlds down there. Make me believe he has outclassed the minor leagues. He hasn't done that, so there's no point in calling him up this year. At a certain point, yes, you call him up regardless of if he's destroying worlds because you just have to. That's next year. 

I think that if the player can improve as well or better at the major league level and is an improvement for the ML team he should be promoted.

I think the O's of 2021 are clearly a better team with him playing for them and I think he's experienced enough that he can learn as much, if not more, in the majors as he can playing in AA.

Dude is 23.  He's not some young kid.  Most guys with his level of ability have been in the majors for multiple seasons at that age.

 

So what does "Destroying worlds" look like?  Do you need EVERY player to be "Destroying Worlds" before they get promoted?  Was Manny "Destroying Worlds"?  Was Schoop?  Was Means?

Or do you only have this song and dance for the best minor leaguers? 

What if he isn't "Destroying Worlds" next season?  What if he isn't in 2023?  Do you start burning his options years waiting for you to earn his call up by finally going full Galactus in AAA at 27?

 

 

[interloper]

Just now, Aristotelian said:

Elias is not paid by the employees. His responsibility is to the organization. Employers promote people when it is in their interest.

And, they ALSO promote when they believe the player will have the most success in the bigs. So they're looking out for the player and the organization. Do some GMs exploit this power grossly? Sure. I don't think we're ANYWHERE NEAR being able to say that about Elias. People are confusing their own impatience for clock-gaming chicanery. It simply hasn't happened here to this point. 

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

Elias is not paid by the employees. His responsibility is to the organization. Employers promote people when it is in their interest.

I've never said otherwise.

Not sure what that has to do with what I said.

[Can_of_corn]

6 minutes ago, interloper said:

And, they ALSO promote when they believe the player will have the most success in the bigs. So they're looking out for the player and the organization. Do some GMs exploit this power grossly? Sure. I don't think we're ANYWHERE NEAR being able to say that about Elias. People are confusing their own impatience for clock-gaming chicanery. It simply hasn't happened here to this point. 

How was not promoting Mountcastle in September 2019 looking out for the player?

How could not getting a chance to play more outfield and hit against major league pitching have helped him?  How was going home helpful to his career advancement?

There was nothing to stop them from sending him back down to start 2020 if they thought he needed it.  They certainly didn't have a crunch on the 40 man roster. 

So why didn't they call him up for some ML reps?

Give me a better reason than they didn't want to start his clock.

 

Edit- I'm done with the topic for now since I'm sure everyone is sick of hearing me.

 

 

Edited July 6, 2021 by Can_of_corn

[interloper]

14 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I think that if the player can improve as well or better at the major league level and is an improvement for the ML team he should be promoted.

I think the O's of 2021 are clearly a better team with him playing for them and I think he's experienced enough that he can learn as much, if not more, in the majors as he can playing in AA.

Dude is 23.  He's not some young kid.  Most guys with his level of ability have been in the majors for multiple seasons at that age.

 

So what does "Destroying worlds" look like?  Do you need EVERY player to be "Destroying Worlds" before they get promoted?  Was Manny "Destroying Worlds"?  Was Schoop?  Was Means?

Or do you only have this song and dance for the best minor leaguers? 

What if he isn't "Destroying Worlds" next season?  What if he isn't in 2023?  Do you start burning his options years waiting for you to earn his call up by finally going full Galactus in AAA at 27?

 

 

I'll take this one point at a time.

I think that if the player can improve as well or better at the major league level and is an improvement for the ML team he should be promoted. We have no way of knowing if a player can improve as well or better at the ML level. It's unknowable. Therefore, he should be promoted when it's clear the level he is currently at is no longer a challenge. That's the best evidence we have.

I think the O's of 2021 are clearly a better team with him playing for them and I think he's experienced enough that he can learn as much, if not more, in the majors as he can playing in AA. I agree that the team is better with Adley on it right now, although that's completely meaningless in 2021. I don't really disagree that he can learn on the fly in the bigs, I just don't really care to see him do that until he dominates AA. Why take any chances with a player of this magnitude? Play it as safe as you can. Let him work out of slumps at the AA level.

 Dude is 23.  He's not some young kid.  Most guys with his level of ability have been in the majors for multiple seasons at that age. It's not the Orioles' fault that he's 23 and missed almost 2 full years of pro ball. Ideally he would have torn through AA last year at age 22, but there was a global pandemic if you recall. So now he's 23. But he's catching up on the learning he would have done at age 22. We can't set the precedent of rushing prospects when they miss full years. Do we do that with guys after year-long injuries? No, so why would we do it now. 

So what does "Destroying worlds" look like?  Do you need EVERY player to be "Destroying Worlds" before they get promoted?  Was Manny "Destroying Worlds"?  Was Schoop?  Was Means? No, not everyone needs to destroy their level, but you certainly like to see them dominate. Like I already said, most of the time you just have to promote a guy regardless of his performance level. For a guy like Adley, though, a .900 OPS with 11 homers at AA is definitely good enough to get him to AAA. I dunno about MLB. I'd like to see him do even more. If he doesn't, then no biggie, you promote him eventually anyway. For me, there's more there for him to learn in the minors. 

 

Do I think he will be promoted in 2021? I think it's fairly likely, which would fall in line with how you perceived Mountcastle. Elias promoted him later than you liked, but he still did promote him within that same season. (edit: it seems you wanted him promoted in 2019, which, again, I disagree.) Adley I could see the same thing, but I also don't think we are factoring in a potential strike as much as we should be.