Olney on O’s losing

[Jagwar]

11 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

Nah.  Almost every team is able to do both of these things.  
 

The Os clearly have the money to do both.  It’s wrong to imply otherwise.

Ah... the "almost" is the key isn't it? Unfortunately, the O's are smack dab in the middle of the "almost".

I would slightly amend your statement as follows... "Almost every team, the O's excluded because their organization had to build this from scratch, is able to do both of these things"

[Sports Guy]

4 minutes ago, Jagwar said:

Ah... the "almost" is the key isn't it? Unfortunately, the O's are smack dab in the middle of the "almost".

I would slightly amend your statement as follows... "Almost every team, the O's excluded because their organization had to build this from scratch, is able to do both of these things"

No, I said almost because I didn’t do the research to make sure all teams are jumping into the intl market with both feet or that they are doing the right things development wise.

What is undeniable is that every team can do what they need to contend and you don’t have to tank or be a bad team to do it.  That is a fact.  It’s not up for debate.  It’s proven every year with several teams that you can play at a high level, draft in the 15-30 range, spend internationally and put a good product  on the field.  

[Can_of_corn]

6 minutes ago, Jagwar said:

Ah... the "almost" is the key isn't it? Unfortunately, the O's are smack dab in the middle of the "almost".

I would slightly amend your statement as follows... "Almost every team, the O's excluded because their organization had to build this from scratch, is able to do both of these things"

It wasn't from scratch.

Yes they spent little there but it wasn't from scratch.  Dan did have a prior history in that area.

Folks make it sound as if this guy was the entirety of their operations.

 

[Aristotelian]

1 minute ago, Sports Guy said:

No, I said almost because I didn’t do the research to make sure all teams are jumping into the intl market with both feet or that they are doing the right things development wise.

What is undeniable is that every team can do what they need to contend and you don’t have to tank or be a bad team to do it.  That is a fact.  It’s not up for debate.  It’s proven every year with several teams that you can play at a high level, draft in the 15-30 range, spend internationally and put a good product  on the field.  

Which is exactly what Elias is building up to. He inherited a situation where we had a 100 loss team with a decimated farm system, a crippling contract, and few veterans assets with trade value. If you are going to build for the long haul you would put all your resources toward the farm, not the MLB team. That is what Elias has done and appears he is headed in the right direction. 

[Jagwar]

3 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

No, I said almost because I didn’t do the research to make sure all teams are jumping into the intl market with both feet or that they are doing the right things development wise.

What is undeniable is that every team can do what they need to contend and you don’t have to tank or be a bad team to do it.  That is a fact.  It’s not up for debate.  It’s proven every year with several teams that you can play at a high level, draft in the 15-30 range, spend internationally and put a good product  on the field.  

I get what you're saying. Most teams can do that. I just think the O's organization never showed any capacity to do those things for decades.  Elias & Co are building that capacity from scratch.  

[Pickles]

4 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

No, I said almost because I didn’t do the research to make sure all teams are jumping into the intl market with both feet or that they are doing the right things development wise.

What is undeniable is that every team can do what they need to contend and you don’t have to tank or be a bad team to do it.  That is a fact.  It’s not up for debate.  It’s proven every year with several teams that you can play at a high level, draft in the 15-30 range, spend internationally and put a good product  on the field.  

Yes, and it takes a while to build that foundation.

And that's what they're attempting here.

Nobody here can really give any example of what SHOULD be done to get all these easy ML victories except call-up a pitcher who isn't prepared to throw 100 innings, and had never thrown an inning above A-ball before this year;  and a catcher, that admittedly is probably worth 2-3 wins in 150 games.

So again, it always comes back to this: All this ink spilt for a handful of wins which won't impact our position in the standings one bit.

[Pickles]

2 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

It wasn't from scratch.

Yes they spent little there but it wasn't from scratch.  Dan did have a prior history in that area.

Folks make it sound as if this guy was the entirety of their operations.

 

Who in the development side precedes Elias?

[Frobby]

3 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

No, I said almost because I didn’t do the research to make sure all teams are jumping into the intl market with both feet or that they are doing the right things development wise.

What is undeniable is that every team can do what they need to contend and you don’t have to tank or be a bad team to do it.  That is a fact.  It’s not up for debate.  It’s proven every year with several teams that you can play at a high level, draft in the 15-30 range, spend internationally and put a good product  on the field.  

What you have to do to contend has everything to do with where you start.   When you start with a 47-win team that already has traded away it’s most valuable assets, that’s a different job than, say, taking over a 70-win team that has an average farm system and a number of tradable players.   As I said earlier, I don’t know how you “tank” with a team that’s already sunk that low.   

[eddie83]

5 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

No, I said almost because I didn’t do the research to make sure all teams are jumping into the intl market with both feet or that they are doing the right things development wise.

What is undeniable is that every team can do what they need to contend and you don’t have to tank or be a bad team to do it.  That is a fact.  It’s not up for debate.  It’s proven every year with several teams that you can play at a high level, draft in the 15-30 range, spend internationally and put a good product  on the field.  

What team unless they were willing to go the 97 Marlins, 01 DBacks route was going to be competitive with what was here after the 18 season? 
 

I agree with you when you say every team can be competitive. That said the situation Elias inherited due to ownership was a dumpster fire at the MLB level.  

[Pickles]

Hell, the scouting side for that matter?

The ML coaching staff?

[Sports Guy]

2 minutes ago, Jagwar said:

I get what you're saying. Most teams can do that. I just think the O's organization never showed any capacity to do those things for decades.  Elias & Co are building that capacity from scratch.  

No they didn’t…but just because they didn’t before doesn’t mean they can’t now.  
 

It’s not an either/or situation.  You can and should be doing everything.

[Sports Guy]

2 minutes ago, Frobby said:

What you have to do to contend has everything to do with where you start.   When you start with a 47-win team that already has traded away it’s most valuable assets, that’s a different job than, say, taking over a 70-win team that has an average farm system and a number of tradable players.   As I said earlier, I don’t know how you “tank” with a team that’s already sunk that low.   

The foundation was there heading into 2021.  They were able to use the covid excuse and many fans bought right into it. 
 

This offseason they will use the CBA excuse and fans will buy right into it.

Its all bs.  

[eddie83]

I agree with the idea that if they are run properly they should not have to go to these depths again.  That is fair. That said at some point even if they bring a WS title home a rebuild of some sort will happen. Let’s hope it’s 20 years from the start of winning. 

[Can_of_corn]

4 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

Which is exactly what Elias is building up to. He inherited a situation where we had a 100 loss team with a decimated farm system, a crippling contract, and few veterans assets with trade value. If you are going to build for the long haul you would put all your resources toward the farm, not the MLB team. That is what Elias has done and appears he is headed in the right direction. 

22 out of 30 is "decimated"?

While Dan did make some short sighted trades the farm wasn't decimated.  Talent was there.

Also one contract doesn't cripple a team.  I think you mean crippling restrictions from ownership.

You take the Davis contract away and it changes nothing of substance from 2018-2021.

[Sports Guy]

6 minutes ago, eddie83 said:

What team unless they were willing to go the 97 Marlins, 01 DBacks route was going to be competitive with what was here after the 18 season? 
 

I agree with you when you say every team can be competitive. That said the situation Elias inherited due to ownership was a dumpster fire at the MLB level.  

I never said they should have been competitive in 2019.