Orioles claim Lucius Fox…But at what cost?

[ChosenOne21]

Team speed for chrissake!

[Camden_yardbird]

21 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

We thought that last year and we lost a .1 rWAR reliever! 

People who say this don't recognize that Pop was in his rookie year and clearly showed that he will most likely be a significant contributor to a good bullpen in a few years.  He has the tools.  Its not about what he was last year, its about what he will be in 2-3.

[Can_of_corn]

4 minutes ago, Camden_yardbird said:

People who say this don't recognize that Pop was in his rookie year and clearly showed that he will most likely be a significant contributor to a good bullpen in a few years.  He has the tools.  Its not about what he was last year, its about what he will be in 2-3.

I wanted to protect Pop.  I think Elias made a mistake.

But odds are better than average that Pop doesn't ever become a force in a bullpen.  He's probably just a guy.  Now maybe he becomes a Brad Brach level guy where he bounces around for 11 seasons based off a nice 2-3 year run, but that's about as good as it's likely to get for him.

[sportsfan8703]

50 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I wanted to protect Pop.  I think Elias made a mistake.

But odds are better than average that Pop doesn't ever become a force in a bullpen.  He's probably just a guy.  Now maybe he becomes a Brad Brach level guy where he bounces around for 11 seasons based off a nice 2-3 year run, but that's about as good as it's likely to get for him.

Pop was also about 1 more bad outing away from being offered back or going on the IL. Last April the vibe was that Scroeler looked real good. Wells was behind Scroeler and that Pop would be coming back like how Fenter did. 

[sportsfan8703]

22 hours ago, Tony-OH said:

Maybe a Richie Martin replacement? He was once highly thought of ($6 million bonus from Giants), but his statistics certainly have shown that has NOT developed like they'd hope. 

His MLB pipeline makes him look major league ready as a utility guy.
https://www.mlb.com/prospects/royals/lucius-fox-665650

Seems like Mateo-light. 

Seems like Elias targets these former big bonus signings. I like it. Chase upside. From MLB pipeline in 2020,

Scouting grades: Hit: 45 | Power: 30 | Run: 60 | Arm: 55 | Field: 55 | Overall: 45

The Giants signed Fox for $6 million as an 18-year-old in 2015 after he had moved from Florida, where he spent three years at American Heritage High (Delray Beach, Fla.), to his native Bahamas ahead of his senior year. He had been in the Giants’ system for less than a year when they flipped him to Tampa Bay for Matt Moore at the 2016 Trade Deadline. 

[Frobby]

59 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I wanted to protect Pop.  I think Elias made a mistake.

But odds are better than average that Pop doesn't ever become a force in a bullpen.  He's probably just a guy.  Now maybe he becomes a Brad Brach level guy where he bounces around for 11 seasons based off a nice 2-3 year run, but that's about as good as it's likely to get for him.

A Brach is certainly worth having.  If Pop turns out that well that’s a big win for Miami.  

[sportsfan8703]

14 minutes ago, Frobby said:

A Brach is certainly worth having.  If Pop turns out that well that’s a big win for Miami.  

Why can’t we just look at is that we’d rather have Wells than Pop?  Wells has a better chance to become Brach then Pop. 
 

Also, I don’t see us signing and IF now in FA, unless someone accepts a milb deal. We currently have Mateo, Fox, Martin, Urias, and Grenier has depth. Some stretches there, but enough to bridge to Westburg and/or Gunnar. 

Edited November 20, 2021 by sportsfan8703

[Can_of_corn]

16 minutes ago, Frobby said:

A Brach is certainly worth having.  If Pop turns out that well that’s a big win for Miami.  

Sure, but I think that is about the limit of what we can expect from a Pop.  And the key is to get the three seasons, out of eleven, that he was a difference maker out of the pen.

2 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Why can’t we just look at is that we’d rather have Wells than Pop?  Wells has a better chance to become Brach then Pop. 

No reason they couldn't have had both Wells and Pop.  It wasn't a give up A to get B situation.

[sportsfan8703]

4 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

No reason they couldn't have had both Wells and Pop.  It wasn't a give up A to get B situation.

True, and I’d be interested to see what the 40 man roster was looking like last year before the Rule 5 protection deadline. 
 

Hopefully we’re in our last offseason of the boringness of rebuilding and making mountains out of lost Rule 5 guys and waiver claims. But at the same time we have top waiver priority, and the #1 pick in the rule 5 draft. 
 

I forgot how many games we lost, and I’m not looking it up to be depressed, but I want to see Elias gun for Celings on waiver claims and the Rule 5. We’re punting seasons and will next year as well, so if you’re punting then at least go big and no util types or crafty relievers. 

[Can_of_corn]

8 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

True, and I’d be interested to see what the 40 man roster was looking like last year before the Rule 5 protection deadline. 
 

Hopefully we’re in our last offseason of the boringness of rebuilding and making mountains out of lost Rule 5 guys and waiver claims. But at the same time we have top waiver priority, and the #1 pick in the rule 5 draft. 
 

I forgot how many games we lost, and I’m not looking it up to be depressed, but I want to see Elias gun for Celings on waiver claims and the Rule 5. We’re punting seasons and will next year as well, so if you’re punting then at least go big and no util types or crafty relievers. 

I'm sick of watching the manager and GM manage around rule V acquisitions that hardly ever turn out to be worth the effort.

You don't think the O's could have just traded for Wells last year?  That way you can get the player and not have to lie about injuries and handcuff the manager.

[sportsfan8703]

4 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I'm sick of watching the manager and GM manage around rule V acquisitions that hardly ever turn out to be worth the effort.

You don't think the O's could have just traded for Wells last year?  That way you can get the player and not have to lie about injuries and handcuff the manager.

True but when have ever really gambled and did the draft and stash?  Santander?  It would be real nice to snag one of the Carchers. Then our org depth would be AR->Rule 5 C->Willems/Basallo. 
 

I look at this year’s rule 5 draft as helping to complete the long term depth rather than offer short term MLB gains. 
 

It’s no secret that we’ve punting seasons with Elias. All I’m saying is just really punt. Use the 26 man roster to help build those 2023+ teams. 
 

We always talk about the instructional leagues being so valuable. Let’s say we take two position players. Well then play them some and then instruct them the rest of the time. 

[Can_of_corn]

4 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

True but when have ever really gambled and did the draft and stash?  Santander?  It would be real nice to snag one of the Carchers. Then our org depth would be AR->Rule 5 C->Willems/Basallo. 
 

I look at this year’s rule 5 draft as helping to complete the long term depth rather than offer short term MLB gains. 
 

It’s no secret that we’ve punting seasons with Elias. All I’m saying is just really punt. Use the 26 man roster to help build those 2023+ teams. 
 

We always talk about the instructional leagues being so valuable. Let’s say we take two position players. Well then play them some and then instruct them the rest of the time. 

I think most of the rule V guys over the years have had...questionable...injuries that resulted in them missing time.

I don't see why they can't simply work out a trade for one of these guys, if they aren't valuable enough to make the 40 how highly could they be valued?  That way you can just option them if you need a bullpen arm or if they are obviously not competitive.

Has Elias made a trade for a player being squeezed off a team's 40?  Seems to me that would be a good chance to get some value at a fair price.

[SteveA]

And Lucius is gone.

Claimed on waivers by the Nats.

[Tony-OH]

11 minutes ago, SteveA said:

And Lucius is gone.

Claimed on waivers by the Nats.

I just don't get what teams see in this guy. He's a 40 level utility guy. 

[wildcard]

1 minute ago, Tony-OH said:

I just don't get what teams see in this guy. He's a 40 level utility guy. 

Maybe they need a UIF.  That was his projected spot for the O's.  And he has an option.