Nobody Can Convince Me That the Orioles Infield is not Dramatically Better..

[El Gordo]

Its more scientific than "I say so, therefore it is."

These are pretty widely accepted number right here, I mean these are official MLB stats.

You're saying that the MLB will give Miggy a break?

Find me a stat that puts Miguel in the bottom half of fielding in the AL and I will shut up. Because every number on him says he is near the top.

There are really no definitve defensive stats. There are arguments over how they are computed and their accuracy. It's a very subjective thing in comparison to offensive stats, which are much more independent.

[SilentJames]

So are wins and losses for the pitcher of record.

You're point? A pitcher than wins more games is generally regarded as being a good pitcher.

I know what you are saying: "wins are the worst measure of a pitcher's ability." But it is a false analogy. There are a lot of things about wins that a pitcher CAN'T control. But ZR, he either gets to it, or he doesn't.

Now if you are saying that ZR for Miguel is somehow not the same for any other SS and somehow giving him an advantage. Or you are saying that ZR is completely fallible and should not be used to judge a SS performance.

Fine, you go on believing what you want. But still, find me a stat that puts Miguel Tejada in the bottom third of fielding in the AL.

The only one that comes close is Range Factor(PO/ Innings played), but that stat takes into account games played, and due to his time off Miguel has played in fewer games than most other starting SS in the AL

[SilentJames]

There are really no definitve defensive stats. There are arguments over how they are computed and their accuracy. It's a very subjective thing in comparison to offensive stats, which are much more independent.

Yeah but when ALL of them agree that he is one of the better SS in the AL. I mean come on. People get put to death on circumstantial evidence, I'm just trying to prove a guy is an effective SS.

[section34]

So are wins and losses for the pitcher of record.

Z's right...SJ's wrong...Miggy does not get to balls a good SS does. I don't care what any factor says.

[SilentJames]

Z's right...SJ's wrong...Miggy does not get to balls a good SS does. I don't care what any factor says.

And what major league baseball team do you play for / manage again?

[section34]

Yeah but when ALL of them agree that he is one of the better SS in the AL. I mean come on. People get put to death on circumstantial evidence, I'm just trying to prove a guy is an effective SS.

Who are ALL? I'll take my own eyes and knowledge of the game over this ALL.

[section34]

And what major league baseball team do you play for / manage again?

Miggy's a star MLB'er...just not at SS anymore. Period.

[SilentJames]

Who are ALL? I'll take my own eyes and knowledge of the game over this ALL.

The dozens of people that compile statistics at the Elias Sports Bureau and Major League Baseball.

[SilentJames]

Miggy's a star MLB'er...just not at SS anymore. Period.

Until you can give me some sort of evidence you can not say I'm wrong. That is your opinion. But the stats claim otherwise. And the stats are just that, numbers.

Also, Miggy has the second highest FLD PCT in baseball.

I mean thats as basic a fielding stat gets.

[HoodGuy007]

Mr. Tejada Is Useless Guy

Bud Light Presents Real Men of Genius

(Real Men of Genius)

Today we salute you Mr. Tejada Is Useless Guy

(Mr. Tejada Is Useless Guy )

Your complete hatred for the raw cowhide glove that fits on Miguel Tejada's left hand has left you so bitter, you often begin babbling in your sleep about someone named "Morban."

(I need my Jose!)

In order to prove your point, you quoted an Oriole legend who has kept up with the game so well, he once congratulated Cal for 3161.

(It's the Dempster!)

When you start a discussion, you freely admit that your mind cannot be changed, making you the son of Sports Guy, or incredibly unwilling to listen to reason.

(The sky is green!)

So crack open an ice cold Bud Light O' Basher of the Dominicans, we may be able to prove you wrong with zone ratings, but you once played SS in Little League, so you know the position better than us all.

[section34]

Until you can give me some sort of evidence you can not say I'm wrong. That is your opinion. But the stats claim otherwise. And the stats are just that, numbers.

Also, Miggy has the second highest FLD PCT in baseball.

I mean thats as basic a fielding stat gets.

Which is what makes baseball so great! We can have different opinions. Miggy is not an above avg SS. He'd be an above avg 3rd baseman though. He's also an above avg hitter.

SJ: he doesn't cover the field like LHern or Bynum...period.

[SilentJames]

Which is what makes baseball so great! We can have different opinions. Miggy is not an above avg SS. He'd be an above avg 3rd baseman though. He's also an above avg hitter.

SJ: he doesn't cover the field like LHern or Bynum...period.

YEAH DUH!

They are like what 6 years younger than him. Right now there is some kid in AA ball that "covers more ground" than Derek Jeter too. But if that kid ever gets called up to fill in you aren't going to hear Yankee fans calling for him to stay in lieu of Jeter. They probably cover more ground than Ripken in his prime. They are smaller and lighter.

They can cover more ground great. But I guarantee, that if these guys were your everyday starters you would see AT LEAST twice as many errors than Miguel.

Which, coincidently would put them at Derek Jeter levels. Miggy is tied for the fewest amount of errors as SS in the AL (among starters.) He and Cabrera both have 6. though he has played in fewer games. I think it is safe to say that Miggy would have one or two more.

[os1971]

Show a statistic, ANY statistic, that proves Tejada is a "below-average" shortstop.

Until you do, any post you make on the subject will be responded to by that challenge.

Prove everybody wrong, instead of whining about people arguing with you. We've made our point with facts. You've just acted like your opinion is the only fact you need.

http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/infield-defense-mdash-back-to-basics/

Heres one. Uses the 2006 O's infield defense for analysis. Unless you want to believe Roberts is the weak link I'd say it points pretty definitively at Tejada. Of course it doesn't take into account bobbled balls and bone-head plays.

[DrungoHazewood]

Z's right...SJ's wrong...Miggy does not get to balls a good SS does. I don't care what any factor says.

Who are ALL? I'll take my own eyes and knowledge of the game over this ALL.

Miggy's a star MLB'er...just not at SS anymore. Period.

You do realize that your argument is, essentially, the same as saying "I don't care if a guy has a .900 OPS, is hitting .315, and has 27 homers. His swing sucks and I know he's not a major league hitter. Pitchers make him look bad all the time. I can see it with my own eyes. I don't care what anyone says, I'm right."

[DrungoHazewood]

http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/infield-defense-mdash-back-to-basics/

Heres one. Uses the 2006 O's infield defense for analysis. Unless you want to believe Roberts is the weak link I'd say it points pretty definitively at Tejada. Of course it doesn't take into account bobbled balls and bone-head plays.

That was 2006, when Tejada played most of the first half nursing an injury that directly effected his range.