Nobody Can Convince Me That the Orioles Infield is not Dramatically Better..

[bgfield]

Which is what makes baseball so great! We can have different opinions. Miggy is not an above avg SS. He'd be an above avg 3rd baseman though. He's also an above avg hitter.

SJ: he doesn't cover the field like LHern or Bynum...period.

It's nice to hear you say "we can all have opinions" following a post where you bluntly state that SJ's opinion is wrong.

If it's all a matter of opinion then respect his. That's an irrelevant point though because it's not a matter of opinion. The stats prove SJ's point. You have nothing but "I played shortstop and I actually watch the games!"

Give it a rest. Miggy's a good short stop. You're wrong, you lose, you fail, your opponent is the victor, etc.

[The Wedge]

Well that is a ludicrous assumption on your part. You know the old saying abouit the word "assume" don't you? If the shoe fits wear it Pal. You are apparently wishing to assume I am so stupid or ill informed that I don't know that Tejada broke his hand and has been on the DL. To make that sort of ridiculous "assumption" based on your take on my use of the word "replace" speaks volumes for you as far as I am concerned, and I cannot post my true feelings about your or I would be summarily banned. Ergo you will receive a place of honor as ths first person here on my ignore list. Sayanara, audios, so long.

I am quite honored. Keep me there. But I'm not going to roll over and say that, in a thread where you are going on and on about moving Tejada off SS, you're post wasn't an obvious inference. Especially since I wasn't alone in noticing your inference. So go ahead, place me on your ignore list and make a huge deal of it. Take your ball and go home, you big baby. It's your loss, as you'll miss tons of hilarity and entertainment. If you last that long.

[bgfield]

Aren't defensive ratings subjective?

zone rating

a measure of fielding ability based on the number of outs made in relation to the number of balls hit into a player's zone, limiting the zone to an area considered playable by the fielder; calculated as outs/(balls hit into zone).

How is "considered playable" calculated?

As SJ has already pointed out, this is a much more specific calculation than merely saying "I watch the games and Miguel Tejada doesn't get to balls that he should"

[bgfield]

Well that is a ludicrous assumption on your part. You know the old saying abouit the word "assume" don't you? If the shoe fits wear it Pal. You are apparently wishing to assume I am so stupid or ill informed that I don't know that Tejada broke his hand and has been on the DL. To make that sort of ridiculous "assumption" based on your take on my use of the word "replace" speaks volumes for you as far as I am concerned, and I cannot post my true feelings about youror I would be summarily banned. Ergo you will receive a place of honor as ths first person here on my ignore list. Sayanara, audios, so long.

In your mind, are you EVER wrong?

[Fan4Life]

As SJ has already pointed out, this is a much more specific calculation than merely saying "I watch the games and Miguel Tejada doesn't get to balls that he should"

Ok, I originally thought that each player was rated by their ability to reach a certain part of the field and thus Tejada would have a different rating than Fahey. Sounds like the Zone is the same for every player and only the possibility of a ball being hit where 2 zones meet could you get a subjective call on that player's ability to get to it. Also, it would then seem how a player plays each pitch has a great affect on their rating. For example, if a LH'er is batting, and Trachsel is pitching him away, you might shade towards 3B as a SS, if the pitch gets hit closer to up the middle, either due to poor pitch location or a change of speeds sped up the bat some, then perhaps the SS won't be able to get to a ball he might normally. So how much does the defensive placement / control of the pitching matter?

[bgfield]

Ok, I originally thought that each player was rated by their ability to reach a certain part of the field and thus Tejada would have a different rating than Fahey. Sounds like the Zone is the same for every player and only the possibility of a ball being hit where 2 zones meet could you get a subjective call on that player's ability to get to it. Also, it would then seem how a player plays each pitch has a great affect on their rating. For example, if a LH'er is batting, and Trachsel is pitching him away, you might shade towards 3B as a SS, if the pitch gets hit closer to up the middle, either due to poor pitch location or a change of speeds sped up the bat some, then perhaps the SS won't be able to get to a ball he might normally. So how much does the defensive placement / control of the pitching matter?

I'm no expert but I'm pretty sure the zone rating is just a static area which is designated for each position, regardless of the player's defensive ability or his placement. If the SS in question was smart about where he played depending on the batter/where he was being pitched, that could only help his ZR. So for a guy like Cal who always knew where to play certain batters, he might not have as much "range" per se, but he would get to a lot of balls in his zone.

[Frobby]

I think you have to consider whether the awesome defensive play of Tejada's replacements has been a bit fluky, too. Neither Fahey nor Hernandez has made an error in their limited time in Baltimore this year, but Fahey made 8 in 76 games in Norfolk and Hernandez made 9 in 77 games in Bowie/Norfolk. Last year Fahey played 97 innings of SS for the Orioles (about 11 full games) and made 3 errors. These guys have done a great job splitting time in Baltimore over a month; I'm not sure you'd see the same results over 162 games.

[Fan4Life]

I'm no expert but I'm pretty sure the zone rating is just a static area which is designated for each position, regardless of the player's defensive ability or his placement. If the SS in question was smart about where he played depending on the batter/where he was being pitched, that could only help his ZR. So for a guy like Cal who always knew where to play certain batters, he might not have as much "range" per se, but he would get to a lot of balls in his zone.

Assuming the outcome was as predicted. I was referring to the outcome not being as predicted. For example, Frobby has pointed out on another post about how well our pitchers have done in July. You could extrapolate from that data that our pitchers have had better control during this month and thus the defense was positioned correctly based on the pitching. It's when the pitching doesn't have good control that can affect a rating. It would be interesting to see ZR for players per starting pitcher if there was such a thing. Then you could see the perhaps when DCab is pitching, the rating is lower because he can't throw the ball exactly where he wants as often as say Bedard.

[Frobby]

I'm no expert but I'm pretty sure the zone rating is just a static area which is designated for each position, regardless of the player's defensive ability or his placement. If the SS in question was smart about where he played depending on the batter/where he was being pitched, that could only help his ZR. So for a guy like Cal who always knew where to play certain batters, he might not have as much "range" per se, but he would get to a lot of balls in his zone.

This is true. However, who cares "why" a player gets to a ball (positioning vs. true range), so long as he gets there.

[bgfield]

This is true. However, who cares "why" a player gets to a ball (positioning vs. true range), so long as he gets there.

Exactly. What it all boils down to is that Tejada has pretty good range. Maybe not as good as the guys who have been replacing him, but he's still been far from a "defensive liability"

[Eli Eon]

I am quite honored. Keep me there. But I'm not going to roll over and say that, in a thread where you are going on and on about moving Tejada off SS, you're post wasn't an obvious inference. Especially since I wasn't alone in noticing your inference. So go ahead, place me on your ignore list and make a huge deal of it. Take your ball and go home, you big baby. It's your loss, as you'll miss tons of hilarity and entertainment. If you last that long.

Okay, you convinced me otherwise. I see from your profile you are 29, and since I am 52, thanks for calling me a "big baby." I haven't been called that since I was about 8 years old! It makes me feel young and immature again.

I also love being told by someone else what I inferred in a post, when the absurdity of the inference is simply off the charts. Again, continue to twist what I posted into your own travesty of a view. If you think I didn't know Tejada was on the DL and that is why he was replaced, I got a bag of sand to sell you for $500 bucks!

[Eli Eon]

In your mind, are you EVER wrong?

Huh? Just because I post that I know what every Oriole fan on the planet knows unless they have been in a coma the past month or so that Tejada went on the DL for a broken hand, you infer that I think I am never wrong? Some of you have some rather unusual reading comprehension issues or so it seems. It is like you take something so far out of context you are off to another universe!

[Mackus]

Huh? Just because I post that I know what every Oriole fan on the planet knows unless they have been in a coma the past month or so that Tejada went on the DL for a broken hand, you infer that I think I am never wrong? Some of you have some rather unusual reading comprehension issues or so it seems. It is like you take something so far out of context you are off to another universe!

If your point is that Hernandez and Fahey have played a better SS over the past 4 weeks than Tejada had earlier this year, then thats true.

If your point is that we're better off as a team with them there than with Tejada, or that Tejada is a liability in the field, then you are completely and impressively wrong.

[tywright]

If we trade Payton, what does everybody think of putting Mora in LF and moving Tejada to 3B? This doesn't necessarily need to happen this season, but it's something that should be looked at for next year. Tejada's value is based on him as a 3B now so why not put him there.

[Eli Eon]

If your point is that Hernandez and Fahey have played a better SS over the past 4 weeks than Tejada had earlier this year, then thats true.

If your point is that we're better off as a team with them there than with Tejada, or that Tejada is a liability in the field, then you are completely and impressively wrong.

I am correct on both points, as I predict many doubters will witness first hand for themselves when Miggy and his less than stellar defense returns to the shortstop position. I do think he is a liability in the field in comparison to those who have been playing the position. When three guys on the roster clearly outplay him, I think it is time to move him to another position, either OF or DH permanently or trade him.

I will stick to this position no matter how much ridicule and scorn I may get hurled my way because it is clearly correct and time will prove it.