Interesting Cuts?

[NelsonCruuuuuz]

1 hour ago, LA2 said:

Nunez and Nevin are both 3rd basemen, but like Nevin, Nunez had also played 1st base and some OF as well.

Orioles let go of Nunez after he had crushed 50 homers in 935 at-bats with the O's in his age 24-26 seasons, which included being second behind Mancini in 2019 and leading the team in 2020. Nevin is 25 and has not shown anything close to Nunez's bat--the comparison is even more stark if you look at their minor league stats. Moreover, Nevin is by no means a defensive whiz--the O's have several players (Urias, Martin, Mateo et al that are more likely to pan out as utility players). Barring a post-ASB break-out, I don't see how the Orioles could feel warranted in seeing him in their long-range plans, especially with all the infield talent beginning to bubble up from the farm.

I completely agree with you on Nevin here, his time is likely running out. I just think he is a guy that may take longer with adjustments and may need a set position to feel comfortable. I think he will be more successful than here. The potential is there. I also think Guterriez deserves a longer look at 3b but clearly I am in the minority there. 

[LA2]

1 hour ago, NelsonCruuuuuz said:

I completely agree with you on Nevin here, his time is likely running out. I just think he is a guy that may take longer with adjustments and may need a set position to feel comfortable. I think he will be more successful than here. The potential is there. I also think Guterriez deserves a longer look at 3b but clearly I am in the minority there. 

Gutierrez is fun to watch at third base. It's getting late though for him to learn how to hit major league pitching: he's just two months away from turning 28.

[NelsonCruuuuuz]

42 minutes ago, LA2 said:

Gutierrez is fun to watch at third base. It's getting late though for him to learn how to hit major league pitching: he's just two months away from turning 28.

Hard to argue with that but I am a believer:) Not saying it will happen but like Matteo, it can. 

[Frobby]

36 minutes ago, NelsonCruuuuuz said:

Hard to argue with that but I am a believer:) Not saying it will happen but like Matteo, it can. 

I like Gutierrez.   But I like Westburg and Henderson more.  

[Brooks The Great]

36 minutes ago, NelsonCruuuuuz said:

Hard to argue with that but I am a believer:) Not saying it will happen but like Matteo, it can. 

You're not saying what will happen? That Nevin will learn how to hit? Because Mateo hasn't learned how to hit - he's one of the worst hitting regulars in baseball.

[NelsonCruuuuuz]

1 minute ago, Brooks The Great said:

You're not saying what will happen? That Nevin will learn how to hit? Because Mateo hasn't learned how to hit - he's one of the worst hitting regulars in baseball.

And literally the best defensively. Not saying he will hit, but huge Mateo fan. If you know the future, please fill me in. 

[Frobby]

5 minutes ago, NelsonCruuuuuz said:

And literally the best defensively. Not saying he will hit, but huge Mateo fan. If you know the future, please fill me in. 

Well, not literally the best, but one of the best this year.   But that’s kind of irrelevant to the point here, which is about whether Nevin can learn to hit.  Frankly, whether Mateo has learned to hit has little to do with Nevin.  

As I see things, Mateo is exceeding expectations with the glove and underperforming expectations with the bat.  rWAR has him at 1.5, which is a slightly better than average starter overall.  fWAR has him at 0.7, which is below average for a starter.   Where’s the truth?   I’d say it’s in between.   He’s a decent starter thanks to his defense, but he really needs to find a way to hit a bit more to keep his job long term.  

Nevin is a well below average defensive 3B and he’s not a good enough hitter to be useful long term.  He’s just plugging a spot until Urias is healthy.  I understand Urias has begun a rehab assignment in Bowie, so I’m guessing Nevin will be gone soon. 

 

[NelsonCruuuuuz]

1 minute ago, Frobby said:

Well, not literally the best, but one of the best this year.   But that’s kind of irrelevant to the point here, which is about whether Nevin can learn to hit.  Frankly, whether Mateo has learned to hit has little to do with Nevin.  

As I see things, Mateo is exceeding expectations with the glove and underperforming expectations with the bat.  rWAR has him at 1.5, which is a slightly better than average starter overall.  fWAR has him at 0.7, which is below average for a starter.   Where’s the truth?   I’d say it’s in between.   He’s a decent starter thanks to his defense, but he really needs to find a way to hit a bit more to keep his job long term.  

Nevin is a well below average defensive 3B and he’s not a good enough hitter to be useful long term.  He’s just plugging a spot until Urias is healthy.  I understand Urias has begun a rehab assignment in Bowie, so I’m guessing Nevin will be gone soon. 

 

Agree on Nevin, his time is nearing an end with us but my larger point with him is this: I predict he goes somewhere else and becomes much better than we are currently. He is a guy that just needs a bit longer to adjust to the new level, he’s been successful at every level. 

[waroriole]

16 minutes ago, NelsonCruuuuuz said:

Agree on Nevin, his time is nearing an end with us but my larger point with him is this: I predict he goes somewhere else and becomes much better than we are currently. He is a guy that just needs a bit longer to adjust to the new level, he’s been successful at every level. 

He’s not slugged over .400 outside A ball, unless you count 106 ABs this year. There’s no indicator that he will be even a mediocre ML hitter. 
 

That said, I’d keep him over Arauz. He looks awful at the plate. At least Nevin can work the count. He just can’t do anything with a hittable pitch. 

[NelsonCruuuuuz]

2 hours ago, waroriole said:

He’s not slugged over .400 outside A ball, unless you count 106 ABs this year. There’s no indicator that he will be even a mediocre ML hitter. 
 

That said, I’d keep him over Arauz. He looks awful at the plate. At least Nevin can work the count. He just can’t do anything with a hittable pitch. 

You could be right, need more info. But I did see in his development, he’s been yanked all over the place. He could use a good full season in the minors. The rule 5 is awful for these player’s development. I’d get rid of it personally. 

[Brooks The Great]

23 hours ago, NelsonCruuuuuz said:

And literally the best defensively. Not saying he will hit, but huge Mateo fan. If you know the future, please fill me in. 

Frobby summed up my confusion with your statement well. I'm well aware of how Mateo is a gold glove-caliber SS, and an awful hitter. I don't see any similarities to Tyler Nevin, aside from I'm guessing you're hoping that Nevin maximizes one of his skills in order to stay on the roster? I personally think Nevin is AAAA filler at the moment and we have options in the minors who are superior as bench players.

Mateo is worth hanging on to in case he ever figures out how to approach a .700 OPS in the next year or so. But he's best utilized as a pinch-runner and late inning defensive replacement off the bench on a winning team. I'd rather see Westburg play SS right now to lengthen our lineup and give Westburg major league reps which will help him and the team when the team is closer to competing.

[Camden_yardbird]

Tyler Thornburg should get a mention in here.  A guy with a sub 4 ERA and a track record of success.

[NelsonCruuuuuz]

On 7/4/2022 at 4:59 PM, Brooks The Great said:

Frobby summed up my confusion with your statement well. I'm well aware of how Mateo is a gold glove-caliber SS, and an awful hitter. I don't see any similarities to Tyler Nevin, aside from I'm guessing you're hoping that Nevin maximizes one of his skills in order to stay on the roster? I personally think Nevin is AAAA filler at the moment and we have options in the minors who are superior as bench players.

Mateo is worth hanging on to in case he ever figures out how to approach a .700 OPS in the next year or so. But he's best utilized as a pinch-runner and late inning defensive replacement off the bench on a winning team. I'd rather see Westburg play SS right now to lengthen our lineup and give Westburg major league reps which will help him and the team when the team is closer to competing.

Not really comparing Nevin & Mateo? You lost me there. I just said I think ultimately both could be successful (like Mateo much more and have since the day they claimed him).

Nevin def is likely to get DFA-Ed barring some huge offensive explosion.

I get the excitement on Westburg & Henderson but let’s give them a little time in AAA first. I personally would play Guterriez at 3b, Mateo at SS and Urias at 2b until those two are ready, been saying that all season.

[Brooks The Great]

6 minutes ago, NelsonCruuuuuz said:

Not really comparing Nevin & Mateo? You lost me there. I just said I think ultimately both could be successful (like Mateo much more and have since the day they claimed him).

Nevin def is likely to get DFA-Ed barring some huge offensive explosion.

I get the excitement on Westburg & Henderson but let’s give them a little time in AAA first. I personally would play Guterriez at 3b, Mateo at SS and Urias at 2b until those two are ready, been saying that all season.

Westburg and Henderson have been promoted together and are close as teammates/friends, but Westburg is 23. It's time to promote him and get him exposure to the major league game. And the options he would be taking playing time away from are worse than mediocre. Westburg is ready. O's need to call him up yesterday.

[NelsonCruuuuuz]

1 minute ago, Brooks The Great said:

Westburg and Henderson have been promoted together and are close as teammates/friends, but Westburg is 23. It's time to promote him and get him exposure to the major league game. And the options he would be taking playing time away from are worse than mediocre. Westburg is ready. O's need to call him up yesterday.

I don’t disagree, just would like to see more but love to hear your thoughts! Hope your right!