What is this team's ideal 8-man bullpen this season?

[wildcard]

4 hours ago, interloper said:

The O's have run into a lot of extra inning games lately, coupled with the Watkins early exit bullpen game, that have forced a lot of "fresh arm" moves for not-so-ideal pitchers. 

This had me thinking, if everything settles down, what is the ideal 8-man bullpen (13-pitcher maximum after 5/29)?

1. Lopez - de facto closer
2. Tate - late inning catch-all guy
3. Perez - late inning lefty flamethrower
4. Bautista - late inning righty flamethrower
5. Akin - 2-inning fireman
6. Krehbiel - solid middle reliever
7. Vespi - the new Fry
8. Kremer - long reliever with potential for more

To me, this looks about right. The 8th spot is obviously the interesting one because Kremer would come at the expense of Bryan Baker (I think out of options?), who for me remains really enticing. He just hasn't quite figured out how to be reliable. But he's had some really good moments, including a couple of much-needed 2-inning appearances. At some point the O's may have to decide on whether to pull the DFA trigger, but circumstances have kind of let them avoid it for now. Kremer will obviously have to do more than 1 good AAA start to force a move. 

And obviously, no bullpen is ever really "set" like this. Moves have to be made depending on usage, etc. 

I like your list but I think its a moving target.  Hyde has been overusing the guys in the pen because of all the consecutive games and the exact innings.  That will continue at certain points during the year.   I think Baumann, Diplan, Gilllaspie, A Wells, Baker and Uvila also play roles.   Watkins may be a spot starter/long man when needed. 

Because of innings limits on some of the pitchers Matt Harvey may play a role later in the season.  I don't think of DL Hall as a pen guy.  He is more of an Opener to me.

[ArtVanDelay]

3 hours ago, interloper said:

I don't think my OP states that I want him DFA'd, unless you're talking about someone else. In fact I called him enticing and noted his good appearances. It's just a bummer that he's out of options. I hope they don't DFA him, but I'm also not sure he'll end up being the best option for that last spot in the 'pen. Obviously that could change really quickly. 

So... yeah, I wasn't saying he should be DFA'd because of any recent game. 

 

2 hours ago, Aristotelian said:

According to Fangraphs Roster Resource, Baker has options. Is that wrong? 

Baker has 2 options. 

[Just Regular]

The time increment isn't season or month or week...it is day.    I feel this is one of the Raysian hedge fund atomization of baseball value insights that has served them best relative to other teams.   Elias got Nick Vespi and his two beautiful innings right.

After arm freshness, you can also optimize series to series with your pitcher's strengths and opponent's batter's weaknesses.

They nearly won a World Series with Nick Anderson and his $1.4mm in career earnings as their ace.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/TBA/TBA202010090.shtml

Rays-Yankees 2020 ALDS Game 5 is what the quants are trying to make all baseball, if they get enough pitcher roster spots and Driveline Students of the Month to play with.    Its possible a 60-game season let relievers dominate a fall to an extent they couldn't after 162, but I believe this puzzle is what organizations down-scaling Keegan Akin to a 50-pitch role is all about.    Tyler Matzek trucking Mookie Betts was a last fall highlight for streamer Arms getting good enough to overwhelm even the world's best Bats.

 

[sportsfan8703]

Is it really worth slow playing Hall all the way through the first couple of weeks of next year’s season?  There’s only so many bullets in an arm. He’ll be 24 in September. How much control do you want of the guy?

I’d like to see him be a spot 6th SP/opener type every two weeks then get sent down. At least see what he can do. 

Edited May 25, 2022 by sportsfan8703

[eddie83]

1 minute ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Is it really worth slow playing Hall all the way through the first couple of weeks of next year’s season?  There’s only so many bullets in an arm. He’ll be 24 in September. How much control do you want of the guy?

 I want him to be a starter. I would rather he get shut down early and start then pitch in pen myself. 

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, sportsfan8703 said:

Is it really worth slow playing Hall all the way through the first couple of weeks of next year’s season?  There’s only so many bullets in an arm. He’ll be 24 in September. How much control do you want of the guy?

I don't think it's gaming with Hall so much as it is their high level of protectiveness.

Quote

Spend my nights with a roll of bubble wrap
Pop pop!
Hope no one sees me get freaky!

 

[Frobby]

2 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Is it really worth slow playing Hall all the way through the first couple of weeks of next year’s season?  There’s only so many bullets in an arm. He’ll be 24 in September. How much control do you want of the guy?

I’d like to see him be a spot 6th SP/opener type every two weeks then get sent down. At least see what he can do. 

Are you responding to anyone who thinks that will or should happen?   Elias has made it pretty clear that he expects Hall will be up here sometime this year.  

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, eddie83 said:

 I want him to be a starter. I would rather he get shut down early and start then pitch in pen myself. 

What's better to prepare him for the future?

100 innings starting with 70 in the minors and 30 in the majors or 100 innings with him starting in the minors for 25 and pitching in the ML pen for 75?

I think it's the latter.

 

[eddie83]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

What's better to prepare him for the future?

100 innings starting with 70 in the minors and 30 in the majors or 100 innings with him starting in the minors for 25 and pitching in the ML pen for 75?

I think it's the latter.

 

Playing the best is great but don’t you want him ramped up to start next year? Pen work can be sporadic. I want his pitch count built up to be in rotation. 
 

If down the road he winds up in pen at least you tried him as a starter. 

[Can_of_corn]

5 minutes ago, eddie83 said:

Playing the best is great but don’t you want him ramped up to start next year? Pen work can be sporadic. I want his pitch count built up to be in rotation. 
 

If down the road he winds up in pen at least you tried him as a starter. 

He's pitching 100 innings either way.

I don't think the 75 or so pitch count he's going to be on is going to do a lot to "ramp him up" for a starter's workload next year anyway.

He's going to ramp up next spring for next year, not this July.

[AnythingO's]

Why not do both by having him fill a tandem starter role like Wells-Akin. He can be the short half, like Akin, for Bradish or even Grason.

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, AnythingO's said:

Why not do both by having him fill a tandem starter role like Wells-Akin. He can be the short half, like Akin, for Bradish or even Grason.

Sure, whatever they want.

But if he's only going to pitch, say 100 innings, I'd rather as many as possible be in the majors now that he's healthy.

[interloper]

1 hour ago, ArtVanDelay said:

 

Baker has 2 options. 

Oh wow, great to know. Thanks!

[interloper]

3 hours ago, Aristotelian said:

According to Fangraphs Roster Resource, Baker has options. Is that wrong? 

My mistake - will amend the OP!

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, Can_of_corn said:

What's better to prepare him for the future?

100 innings starting with 70 in the minors and 30 in the majors or 100 innings with him starting in the minors for 25 and pitching in the ML pen for 75?

I think it's the latter.

 

In theory, I agree.  Getting in 75 from the pen over fewer than 118 games will be a challenge though.   He’d need to be used in an Akin-like way.  Not that there’s anything wrong with that!