Who has more trade value, Urias or Mateo?

[Aristotelian]

15 minutes ago, Camden Yards said:

Interesting tidbit by Roch today about Mateo:

Jorge Mateo’s range could be an asset at second, where he didn’t play a single inning in 2022.

 

https://www.masnsports.com/blog/this-that-and-the-other-1-19

 

He did play there initially in '21 when the O's brought him in. I think it's a good thought. Absent any trades I could see an alignment of Gunnar SS-Urias 3B-Mateo 2B with Westburg taking over as soon as he is ready.

[OriolesMagic83]

21 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

He did play there initially in '21 when the O's brought him in. I think it's a good thought. Absent any trades I could see an alignment of Gunnar SS-Urias 3B-Mateo 2B with Westburg taking over as soon as he is ready.

I think that Elias/Hyde is enamoured w Mateo's SS defense.  I haven't heard  near the number of positive comments about Urias' defense.  If I had to guess, I would say the Gunnar at 3b, Mateo at SS and Urias at 2b will be the opening day defense.  Wouldn't surprise me if Urias is traded in the off season.

[orioles22]

Dumbest Idea I've heard on here this year. Waste of talent to move Mateo anywhere, unless it's to another team for a starting pitcher.

[Just Regular]

BTV guesses this at Urias 11, Mateo 3, trusting I guess Urias' proven ability to hit some gets him far enough past zero to matter a little bit more.

Some Ramon Urias ~$11mm median surplus value matches:

LAD Ryan Pepiot

MIN Tyler Mahle

NYY Clay Holmes

TEX Brock Burke

MIA Edward Cabrera

CLE Cal Quantrill

 

[jamalshw]

While Urias may have a slightly higher trade value based on the slightly above league average bat and extra year of service, I do think the excellent defense at SS and speed make it pretty close and to me, it's close enough that the better question (in my mind) is which player fits the 2023 team better. 

We know Henderson is the priority play in the infield and he will be at 3B or SS which clearly bumps one of the two to 2B or the bench. With Westburg coming and likely a better fit at 2B, the question really becomes where do the Orioles want Henderson. If it's at SS, you trade Mateo as I don't see him as a great utility guy (save the speed as his biggest asset is his defense and its wasted at any other position). If it's 3B, then Urias is most likely to be dealt. In theory, you can fit both on the team with Henderson at 3B, Mateo at SS, and Urias at 2B until Westburg is ready and then use Urias as a utility player after that. And honestly, that may be my preference for 2023 (with the realization that Ortiz and Norby are also close but could be used at the deadline for help wherever needed--or as injury replacements). 

And while Urias hasn't been great offensively against LHP, we are leaning a bit left-handed heavy offensively (which I know is by design, but leaves us a bit exposed against tough lefties, particularly if Hyde is going to continue to not give guys like Stowers consistent ABs against southpaws). Urias on the bench along with Vavra helps give a right-handed alternate and I don't hate a bench of Urias, Vavra, McKenna (plus a backup catcher). 

[Aristotelian]

57 minutes ago, jamalshw said:

We know Henderson is the priority play in the infield and he will be at 3B or SS which clearly bumps one of the two to 2B or the bench. With Westburg coming and likely a better fit at 2B, the question really becomes where do the Orioles want Henderson. If it's at SS, you trade Mateo as I don't see him as a great utility guy (save the speed as his biggest asset is his defense and its wasted at any other position). If it's 3B, then Urias is most likely to be dealt. In theory, you can fit both on the team with Henderson at 3B, Mateo at SS, and Urias at 2B until Westburg is ready and then use Urias as a utility player after that. And honestly, that may be my preference for 2023 (with the realization that Ortiz and Norby are also close but could be used at the deadline for help wherever needed--or as injury replacements). 

 

One argument for keeping Mateo is versatility. He would be a natural guy to keep around as SS/2B, both as a utility player, and insurance should any of the prospects struggle. Urias's only comparative advantage from what we've seen is playing 3B. If that is Gunnar's position, Urias is the one who needs to be traded. 

If we didn't have Holliday and Ortiz in the pipeline, I'd probably stick Gunnar at SS and slide Mateo over to 2B. But we do have Holliday and Ortiz coming. I'm leaning toward sticking Gunnar at 3B and keep him there for the next 6 years. Start Mateo at SS and see if he hits any better. If not, Ortiz is the next man up. Then Holliday whenever he is ready. 

If Urias is traded, Westburg could be the opening day 2B with Norby hot on his heels. 

[Roll Tide]

2 hours ago, Aristotelian said:

One argument for keeping Mateo is versatility. He would be a natural guy to keep around as SS/2B, both as a utility player, and insurance should any of the prospects struggle. Urias's only comparative advantage from what we've seen is playing 3B. If that is Gunnar's position, Urias is the one who needs to be traded. 

If we didn't have Holliday and Ortiz in the pipeline, I'd probably stick Gunnar at SS and slide Mateo over to 2B. But we do have Holliday and Ortiz coming. I'm leaning toward sticking Gunnar at 3B and keep him there for the next 6 years. Start Mateo at SS and see if he hits any better. If not, Ortiz is the next man up. Then Holliday whenever he is ready. 

If Urias is traded, Westburg could be the opening day 2B with Norby hot on his heels. 

Good point …I’m not sure I’m trading either unless it’s for something really good. Both are for good fielding guys with decent bats. I’m hoping for Mateo to be less streaky. But, when he was on this year he was a real weapon.

[RVAOsFan]

If Mateo is kept around and Gunnar is the everyday short stop I would be curious to see how Mateo would do in the OF.  He could be the ultimate late inning pinch runner / defensive sub if he could play premium defense up the middle IF and utilize his speed in the OF.

The other side to this is I wonder if asking a guy who had arguably a Gold Glove season at SS to move positions or become a utility player doesn't make him try and request a trade.

[Just Regular]

If Elias moves Mateo to open SS for Gunnar, the Cardinals are a possibility.   STL acquiring Mateo and Santander could meet a couple of their needs mentioned by their beat guy Derrick Goold in chat today as the GM Meetings in Las Vegas get rolling:

The Cardinals are currently calling Tommy Edman their incumbent and their starter at shortstop. Paul DeJong is entering the final year of his contract. That said, they acknowledge that they do have the option of opening up any position in the middle of the field for an alternative/upgrade. That includes SS, 2B, and CF, and of course we all know and have discussed the opening at shortstop. They see Edman as a moveable piece, a defensive dynamo (which he earned this year and should be lauded for doing so because of how well he did at shortstop when there were questions), and valuable because he can move around to make room for a bat.

 

That position has not come up much when the Cardinals discuss their focuses this winter. Are they playing coy? Possibly. They do want to add some strikeouts somewhere to the pitching staff. There is some interest in a reunion with Jose Quintana. 

 

What would put all that in motion is trading a starter. The Cardinals could do that. Jordan Montgomery is due for a raise via arbitration that the Cardinals must decide if that's the value of his production that they'll get in return for one season. If they see otherwise and see a better value on the market, they could make that trade, sign a starter, and then view themselves as having improved.This is the working approach for the front office as they reach the GM Meetings.

 

Was asked last night if the Cardinals had some priorities, and those were two of that I listed. They want to add a catcher, a stable presence there who can be the everyday starter if called upon, and handle the pitching staff. They want to add a significant bat to the mix, knowing that Pujols' power is leaving and the need for a left-handed presence would be beneficial. They have described those as two different additions -- catcher and bat, not catcher-bat. 

[OriolesMagic83]

On 11/6/2022 at 12:06 PM, Just Regular said:

BTV guesses this at Urias 11, Mateo 3, trusting I guess Urias' proven ability to hit some gets him far enough past zero to matter a little bit more.

Some Ramon Urias ~$11mm median surplus value matches:

LAD Ryan Pepiot

MIN Tyler Mahle

NYY Clay Holmes

TEX Brock Burke

MIA Edward Cabrera

CLE Cal Quantrill

 

A trade with LAD centered around Urias and Pepiot would be a good one for the O's.  Pepiot was 9-1 w/ a 2.56 ERA in AAA and 3-0 w/ a 3.47 ERA in the majors.  He's probably just a middle reliever/emergency starter for the Dodgers in 2023.

[PHRESH]

10 hours ago, RVAOsFan said:

If Mateo is kept around and Gunnar is the everyday short stop I would be curious to see how Mateo would do in the OF.  He could be the ultimate late inning pinch runner / defensive sub if he could play premium defense up the middle IF and utilize his speed in the OF.

The other side to this is I wonder if asking a guy who had arguably a Gold Glove season at SS to move positions or become a utility player doesn't make him try and request a trade.

I'd love to see Mateo's arm and range in CF if we move Mullins for pitching. 

[InsideCoroner]

Heck, let’s just see if Mateo can play catcher and be the new backup. Steal attempts would be futile as Mateo could just bolt from behind the plate in full gear and beat the runner to the base. 

[orioles22]

I keep wondering what Weaver would have said if someone suggested moving Belanger to second or center. Mateo is a shortstop, and maybe the best one in the league and seemingly still getting better. It just makes no sense to me to play around with your best defender.

[Frobby]

6 minutes ago, orioles22 said:

I keep wondering what Weaver would have said if someone suggested moving Belanger to second or center. Mateo is a shortstop, and maybe the best one in the league and seemingly still getting better. It just makes no sense to me to play around with your best defender.

If he’s a regular, he needs to be the SS.

As to Belanger, in 1967 he entered a game as a defensive replacement at 2B and made an error that caused the O’s to lose a game in which they pitched a no-hitter. 

[orioles22]

1 minute ago, Frobby said:

If he’s a regular, he needs to be the SS.

As to Belanger, in 1967 he entered a game as a defensive replacement at 2B and made an error that caused the O’s to lose a game in which they pitched a no-hitter. 

I agree.

I didn't remember that one. I started watching in 71 when I was 8. It seemed like he was there forever when you're that young.