Shintaro Fujinami

[RVAOsFan]

I would love to see what our development team and coaches could do with this guy if they had him to work with over the course of a couple years or even an off-season. I don’t know what they can do to fix his command issues in the next 6 weeks though. Is there strike throwing whisperer down in AA or AAA we can send him down to visit for a couple weeks?

[Uli2001]

2 minutes ago, RVAOsFan said:

I would love to see what our development team and coaches could do with this guy if they had him to work with over the course of a couple years or even an off-season. I don’t know what they can do to fix his command issues in the next 6 weeks though. Is there strike throwing whisperer down in AA or AAA we can send him down to visit for a couple weeks?

As others have said, it may not be a "command issue". It is likely a mental issue.

[RVAOsFan]

1 minute ago, Uli2001 said:

As others have said, it may not be a "command issue". It is likely a mental issue.

Maybe a “reset” like Wells is doing could be helpful. There is no point on running him out right now with the lack of consistency we have seen. 

[Moose Milligan]

I don't know if the issue is "mental" or a "command" issue.  But that fastball is still straight as an arrow.  I'm not sure what they can do to create some more movement on it or if that's at all possible.  If they want to re-sign him for next year and start him off in Norfolk or Bowie, that's fine.

He was a disaster last night and I think I've seen all I really need to see from him at this point.  I'd be more forgiving if we were still rebuilding and not looking at the playoffs.

But that's not the situation we're finding ourselves in.  Unfortunately Elias didn't pick up any great relievers at the deadline so we might be stuck trying to fix an airplane while it's flying.

[Natty]

9 minutes ago, Uli2001 said:

I'm just disappointed that a great season might go sideways because of a faltering bullpen. That area may be Elias' blind spot.

Whats wrong with filling your bullpen with other teams rejects when you are heading to the playoffs?

[Bemorewins]

Just now, Uli2001 said:

As others have said, it may not be a "command issue". It is likely a mental issue.

You beat me to it. Some players can handle pressure, others cannot.

When I initially saw his talent, 100+ fastball with very nice spilt/change, I said to myself, “How was this guy signed at such a low number on an1 year deal by Oakland of all teams? And then why would they seemingly be willing to give him away to us for nothing?”

Well I think we have some concrete answers after watching him pitch in 9 games for us. Also, he is not some young pitcher/prospect, the player is 29 years old. It’s very likely who he is, is what he will be.

I think there is a real danger in believing that we are always the smartest guys in the room and we can fix all of these broken/misfit parts when no one else can. It leads you to taking unnecessary risks like we did with Fujinama. Gambling with our postseason fate on a volatile asset instead of acquiring more surety through a known commodity with a track record.

I’m sure Angelos doesn’t really care as he appears aloof to any desire/effort to legitimately compete for a championship. But I hope Elias/Sig learned a lesson through this.

[LA2]

1 hour ago, sportsfan8703 said:

That’s part of the reason that made that 2014-2016 bullpen so good. 

Britton - power lefty

Brach - 3/4 over the top

O’day - submariner

Givens - side arm 

Fuji not only can’t throw strikes but being as he isn’t our 8th inning guy, guys are seeing 100+ FB/Split arsenal a 2nd time when Bautista comes in 2-3 innings later. It’s too much of the same. However, the fit really doesn’t matter because Fuji has zero command on the reg. 

EXCELLENT point--it was an unsettling series of different wind-ups, arm angles, deliveries, and pitch repertoires that opposing batters had to face. Probably the best relief carousel I've ever seen.

[Bemorewins]

5 minutes ago, Natty said:

Whats wrong with filling your bullpen with other teams rejects when you are heading to the playoffs?

Is that what the other legitimate contenders like the Braves, Rangers, Dodgers, Astros did?

I know some have bought into the notion that we can outsmart/out cheap them and somehow surpass them. But they have very smart people too and they have great development systems with great analytics departments as well.

As some point if we want to surpass them we are going to have to go beyond the Ramen Noodles budget and actually be willing to spend something and take some calculated risk. It is simply what is required in order to win a championship. IMO this is what has held Tampa back despite all of the wonderful things that they do. Their organizational leadership (from the top) is not committed to doing what it takes to see the team get over the top.

[Moose Milligan]

1 minute ago, Bemorewins said:

You beat me to it. Some players can handle pressure, others cannot.

When I initially saw his talent, 100+ fastball with very nice spilt/change, I said to myself, “How was this guy signed at such a low number on an1 year deal by Oakland of all teams? And then why would they seemingly be willing to give him away to us for nothing?”

Well I think we have some concrete answers after watching him pitch in 9 games for us. Also, he is not some young pitcher/prospect, the player is 29 years old. It’s very likely who he is, is what he will be.

I think there is a real danger in believing that we are always the smartest guys in the room and we can fix all of these broken/misfit parts when no one else can. It leads you to taking unnecessary risks like we did with Fujinama. Gambling with our postseason fate on a volatile asset instead of acquiring more surety through a known commodity with a track record.

I’m sure Angelos doesn’t really care as he appears aloof to any desire/effort to legitimately compete for a championship. But I hope Elias/Sig learned a lesson through this.

I'm not sure what you're saying here.  It sounds like you're implying that the A's ran him through a battery of aptitude tests to see if he was mentally strong before offering him a contract...and that the contract offered was a low amount because the tests came back negative.

I don't think you would argue something like that though. 

I also don't think there's much danger in believing we're the smartest guys in the room.  We've done fairly well lately at coaxing performances out of players who are talented but haven't been able to put it together at the ML level.  I mean, that's a big part of what Sig and Elias are doing here, installing an analytics system and other progressive ways to look at the game in order to make sure they're squeezing all they can out of players.  

It sure beats what we were doing before.

Fujinami certainly has a lot to overcome if he wants to be successful here but I'd run the "risk" on a guy that can pump 102 consistently all day, every day.  

And stop with the hyperbole, our postseason fate doesn't rest on Fujinami's shoulders.  He might not even make a postseason roster.  

 

[Moose Milligan]

Also in regards to Fuji, no one's taking into account that the ball used in the NPB is slightly smaller than what's used here in the MLB.  I doubt that should make much of a difference but it might for some.

Edited August 10, 2023 by Moose Milligan

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, Moose Milligan said:

Also in regards to Fuji, no one's taking into account that the ball used in the NPB is slightly smaller than what's used here in the MLB.  I doubt that should make much of a difference but it might for some.

He had command issues in Japan as well.

[Number5]

Something I've noticed is that it seems like if Fuji feels he's been squeezed on a pitch by the ump he seems to lose focus entirely and just can't throw strikes after that.  Just something that a fan like me has noticed on tv.  I don't know if it's really a thing or not - and I don't know what, if anything, can be done to fix it if it's really a thing.  Seems like a pitcher from anywhere in the world who has worked his way up to being a MLB pitcher would have almost certainly experienced umpiring issues along the way and learned to deal with it somehow, but I don't know.

[Bemorewins]

8 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

I'm not sure what you're saying here.  It sounds like you're implying that the A's ran him through a battery of aptitude tests to see if he was mentally strong before offering him a contract...and that the contract offered was a low amount because the tests came back negative.

I don't think you would argue something like that though. 

I also don't think there's much danger in believing we're the smartest guys in the room.  We've done fairly well lately at coaxing performances out of players who are talented but haven't been able to put it together at the ML level.  I mean, that's a big part of what Sig and Elias are doing here, installing an analytics system and other progressive ways to look at the game in order to make sure they're squeezing all they can out of players.  

It sure beats what we were doing before.

Fujinami certainly has a lot to overcome if he wants to be successful here but I'd run the "risk" on a guy that can pump 102 consistently all day, every day.  

And stop with the hyperbole, our postseason fate doesn't rest on Fujinami's shoulders.  He might not even make a postseason roster.  

 

I’m saying there was a reason that Fujinama was valued so low by everyone in the game… He’s not very good. He has all the talent in the world, but he simply cannot handle pressure like at all. The command issues have  ALWAYS been an issue for him both here and Japan.

Next, the problem with thinking that you are the smartest guy in the room is that you never actually are. You may be brilliant but there is also someone somewhere just as smart. It can lead to hubris/arrogance which blinds you of self-awareness/humility. There was no need to take such a risk when there were other options available who are consistent perform and would not have cost the world.

As far as what you assess as “hyperbole”, I assess as reality. We have a real hole in our roster/weakness with innings 6 to 8 (the brigade from starter to Bautista). We had a chance at the deadline to plug said hole and decided that Fujinama was enough. 

There isn’t a single pitcher I trust/have confidence in that we have who can be successful in big spots against playoff teams in those scenarios. We have proven this season that we can beat almost anyone save the Braves, Dodgers, and Astros (thus far). IMO those series were lost because we did not have enough good/reliable relievers. 

IMO Fujinama is not the problem (by himself) he is part of the problem, and I thought brought here to help fix the problem. It does not appear that he is capable of that. 

[OriolesMagic83]

29 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

Is that what the other legitimate contenders like the Braves, Rangers, Dodgers, Astros did?

I know some have bought into the notion that we can outsmart/out cheap them and somehow surpass them. But they have very smart people too and they have great development systems with great analytics departments as well.

As some point if we want to surpass them we are going to have to go beyond the Ramen Noodles budget and actually be willing to spend something and take some calculated risk. It is simply what is required in order to win a championship. IMO this is what has held Tampa back despite all of the wonderful things that they do. Their organizational leadership (from the top) is not committed to doing what it takes to see the team get over the top.

Tampa seems to be more committed than the O's as far as doing what it takes to win.  They have extended a substantial number of their young players.  Maybe the model is really Oakland.

[Moose Milligan]

8 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

I’m saying there was a reason that Fujinama was valued so low by everyone in the game… He’s not very good. He has all the talent in the world, but he simply cannot handle pressure like at all. The command issues have  ALWAYS been an issue for him both here and Japan.

Next, the problem with thinking that you are the smartest guy in the room is that you never actually are. You may be brilliant but there is also someone somewhere just as smart. It can lead to hubris/arrogance which blinds you of self-awareness/humility. There was no need to take such a risk when there were other options available who are consistent perform and would not have cost the world.

As far as what you assess as “hyperbole”, I assess as reality. We have a real hole in our roster/weakness with innings 6 to 8 (the brigade from starter to Bautista). We had a chance at the deadline to plug said hole and decided that Fujinama was enough. 

There isn’t a single pitcher I trust/have confidence in that we have who can be successful in big spots against playoff teams in those scenarios. We have proven this season that we can beat almost anyone save the Braves, Dodgers, and Astros (thus far). IMO those series were lost because we did not have enough good/reliable relievers. 

IMO Fujinama is not the problem (by himself) he is part of the problem, and I thought brought here to help fix the problem. It does not appear that he is capable of that. 

 

Fuji was alright in NPB.  3.41 ERA.  He was an All-star three years in a row, All-Star game MVP, league strikeout leader.  

I don't know if Elias and Sig think they're the smartest guys in the room.  You don't really know that either, you just like to sit back and pontificate that think that way because it sounds good to write that on a message board.

I don't think that Elias and Sig think they're the smartest guys in the room because they're not only in the business of building a franchise, but they're in the business of finding new ways to look at the game and assess talent.  If they thought they were the smartest guys in the room I think they'd sit around and pat themselves on the back and not try to move forward.  There's no signs of that.