Orioles sign Adam Frazier

[tntoriole]

20 minutes ago, DrinkinWithFermi said:

Frazier's track record in the OF is not so hot and he is not even remotely a viable option in LF at OPACY with his well below average speed.

Seattle’s GM disagrees with you.. but hey you know more than him and Elias. 
 

“He can play second, he can touch third, he can play both left and right. That just gives us so much flexibility in what we do with the other players,” Dipoto said. ” … We felt like adding Adam made us a deeper team without stopping us from doing anything else we would have wanted to do, which is double the fun. We can continue to add to our team because Adam is so versatile.

 

 

Frazier is certainly elite in that regard, having struck out just 315 times in 2,443 career plate appearances and no more than 75 times in a single season, so it makes sense that a team that preaches controlling the strike zone would keep trying to acquire him.
https://sports.mynorthwest.com/1536104/mariners-breakdown-2b-adam-frazier/amp/

[Can_of_corn]

Seattle also chose not to retain him.

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, Tony-OH said:

CAn I turn this around a bit? What if Frazier does rebound and becomes a 2 WAR player, but Westburg and Ortiz OPS .850+ at AAA while waiting? Is it still a good deal if Westburg or Ortiz are trapped in AAA? 

This is part of the reason why I’ve said this signing only makes sense if a trade involving a middle infielder or two (prospects included) is in the works.   

Ortiz only has 26 games in AAA so I’m not too worried about him.  I don’t think he’d be up before the all-star break (barring injuries) in any event.  Westburg, on the other hand, has 91 games and 400 PA at AAA under his belt.  He’s about as ready as he’s going to be.  
 

[btdart20]

1 hour ago, Tony-OH said:

CAn I turn this around a bit? What if Frazier does rebound and becomes a 2 WAR player, but Westburg and Ortiz OPS .850+ at AAA while waiting? Is it still a good deal if Westburg or Ortiz are trapped in AAA? 

For context, I voted 'no' on the was signing Frazier a good signing for the exact reason you're suggesting.  I trust that one of Westburg/Ortiz/Norby will be a plus MLB 2B.  We have plenty of shots on goal to find a keeper.  Plus, we have other needs with the limited resources.  I don't like the approach, but that doesn't mean it's bad or that Frazier doesn't make the team better (even if it's different than what we hoped for).  

That said, Frazier seems to be a hedge against a prospect flop rate who has a higher floor and ceiling than what we had at 2B last year.  Is building depth from the top one solution to anticipating some health 'regression'?  Is it reasonable to not anticipate some type of regression for some of our guys with short MLB track records?  Could Frazier represent 'locking in some gains' we had in the win column by raising the floor of a known gap?  

If both Westburg and Ortiz post a .850+ OPS, then we've got even more value to trade from.  If we're leading the AL East (or clearly in pole position for the wild card), then there's a good chance we deal from MiLB depth.  If we're out of the hunt (and in this scenario we're talking about Frazier does rebound), then we've got an MLB trade chip.  LHH have a bit more value for playoff teams as well.

I suspect if Westburg/Ortiz post an .850 OPS, there will be MLB ABs to be had in positions where we have weak OBP guys.  Hopefully the success rate of Westburg/Ortiz/Norby/Cowser transitioning well to the MLB out paces the flop rate of the Hays/Mountcastle/Mateo/Frazier crew.  Feel free to add Stowers and/or Vavra to either side of that equation.

Our expectations were a TOR SP, but sometimes the wisdom of Garth Brooks applies:  "Sometimes I thank God for unanswered prayers... that just because he don't answer (the way we hope) doesn't mean he don't care."

[Roll Tide]

4 hours ago, Frobby said:

Wrong. In 2021 Frazier was worth 4.1 rWAR, 3.6 fWAR.   

Yeah 2021 is split I was looking at his 2021 Padres line. 

[Roll Tide]

4 hours ago, Tony-OH said:

CAn I turn this around a bit? What if Frazier does rebound and becomes a 2 WAR player, but Westburg and Ortiz OPS .850+ at AAA while waiting? Is it still a good deal if Westburg or Ortiz are trapped in AAA? 

I don’t like the signing but they’d trade him at the deadline 

[sportsfan8703]

The trade Market should be picking up now that the holidays are over and the infield FA market is thin. I have to think that we signed Frazier so that we could deal Urias or Mateo. 

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

2 hours ago, sportsfan8703 said:

The trade Market should be picking up now that the holidays are over and the infield FA market is thin. I have to think that we signed Frazier so that we could deal Urias or Mateo. 

That's been my theory when trying to think about the logic behind signing Frazier because otherwise the move makes no sense with the current 40 man roster. 

I'm hoping Urias, Mateo or a mystery player is traded for pitching or a MOO type bat. I'm still not exactly happy with the price tag, but the justification for signing is easier if there's a trade.

[ChuckS]

The Frazier signing makes little sense.

But at the end of the day if he’s putting up 19 or 21 numbers, I don’t think any of us will complain. 

Odor was four years removed from a decent season. Frazier is 2. I hate the signing, but that’s my silver lining. 

[OriolesMagic83]

41 minutes ago, ChuckS said:

The Frazier signing makes little sense.

But at the end of the day if he’s putting up 19 or 21 numbers, I don’t think any of us will complain. 

Odor was four years removed from a decent season. Frazier is 2. I hate the signing, but that’s my silver lining. 

I hope Frazier doesn't hit like Odor.  I don't see the O's cutting Frazier and his $8 million salary.

[Explosivo]

1 hour ago, ChuckS said:

The Frazier signing makes little sense.

But at the end of the day if he’s putting up 19 or 21 numbers, I don’t think any of us will complain. 

Odor was four years removed from a decent season. Frazier is 2. I hate the signing, but that’s my silver lining. 

It's all about flexibility. He can cover two spots, second and left field. We will need as much depth as possible to cover 162 games. I think he's a great table setter for a hopeful return to form by Mountcastle and the rest of our power hitters.

[Sports Guy]

6 hours ago, Explosivo said:

It's all about flexibility. He can cover two spots, second and left field. We will need as much depth as possible to cover 162 games. I think he's a great table setter for a hopeful return to form by Mountcastle and the rest of our power hitters.

He’s average at best in the OF and the loss of foot speed and his age suggests he will get worse out there.

A GREAT table setter?  Huh? OPS of barely over 600 in his last 800ish at bats and most things are trending down for him.  Rickey Henderson was a great table setter.  Frazier ain’t that.

[Yardball85]

12 hours ago, sportsfan8703 said:

The trade Market should be picking up now that the holidays are over and the infield FA market is thin. I have to think that we signed Frazier so that we could deal Urias or Mateo. 

Agreed - there is no reason Urias or Mateo, who both put up solid WAR last year, should be on the bench.  That is why the Frazier move made even less sense - if they can get a decent SP for Urias or Mateo, it makes the Frazier signing... a little less bad. 

[Yardball85]

Just now, Yardball85 said:

Agreed - there is no reason Urias or Mateo, who both put up solid WAR last year, should be on the bench.  That is why the Frazier move made even less sense - if they can get a decent SP for Urias or Mateo, it makes the Frazier signing... a little less bad. 

Changing solid to "good."  3.6 for Urias and 3.4 to Mateo.  

[Explosivo]

1 hour ago, Sports Guy said:

He’s average at best in the OF and the loss of foot speed and his age suggests he will get worse out there.

A GREAT table setter?  Huh? OPS of barely over 600 in his last 800ish at bats and most things are trending down for him.  Rickey Henderson was a great table setter.  Frazier ain’t that.

 He’s a contact hitter who will get on base and play quality defense. No one is comparing him to Ricky Henderson but you lol. Honestly, you guys are hilarious sometimes picking at every word . Do y’all live in Baltimore? Maybe there’s something to that if you do.