Rodon to the Yankees - 6 years / $162MM

[Aristotelian]

2 hours ago, Bemorewins said:

I'm pretty sure that MLB would want the team sold. What the Orioles are doing is in the best interest of no one except the Angelos family. The fans don't benefit, the players don't benefit, the sport doesn't benefit to have one of their 30 teams run in such a manner.

After this fiasco of an offseason and the Orioles willingness to alienate the fanbase in such an unforced way, what will be left of the fan interest in the market? It was starting to come back, people were beginning to believe that things would be different, the flame was just beginning to bud. And then for no rational reason, in the most self-harming way possible, they decided "You know what? Fans, we don't need no stinkin' fans!"

For the life of me, I can't understand why they would do this? ... People who are using overpaying players as a rational must fall to see this. You had to do SOMETHING to show the fans in good faith that we can be trusted. You can't expect to put your fanbase through what you put them through for 4 years, then surprising have a winning season. Trade away players in a playoff push and tell the fans "not yet, be patient, our time is coming." And then in the offseason do this!

The odds are after this, attendance is going to go down, not up. There are very few fans that I encounter around town or on Twitter who are excited about next year. The Orioles ruined it, for no good reason.

Absolutely, the ultimate blame here is on Peter and the Angelos family. When I said out of "their" control, I meant specifically Georgia and John, who appear to be trying to sell. 

I grew up with the Edward Bennett Williams Orioles. My dad complained one time about fans being unable to get autographs and EBW himself wrote back a personal letter inviting us to go on the field and get autographs the following spring. That single gesture is a big part of why I am a lifelong Orioles fan. I share your fear the current generation is missing out on that kind of relationship to the team, and that starts with ownership at the top.

However, my son for the first time in a while has gotten interested in the O's again with the arrival of Adley and Gunnar. Having some young stars playing competitively can do a lot for the franchise. If the franchise is set up to be bought by a committed ownership group that could be the best possible long term outcome. 

 

[Aristotelian]

2 hours ago, deward said:

Wait, what happened to the young, exciting team and THE WALL being the draws that would lure in free agent pitchers? Doesn't seem to be working...

Lol, Gibson mentioned all of those things, so maybe in Elias's mind the plan is a success! 

[Bemorewins]

17 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

Absolutely, the ultimate blame here is on Peter and the Angelos family. When I said out of "their" control, I meant specifically Georgia and John, who appear to be trying to sell. 

I grew up with the Edward Bennett Williams Orioles. My dad complained one time about fans being unable to get autographs and EBW himself wrote back a personal letter inviting us to go on the field and get autographs the following spring. That single gesture is a big part of why I am a lifelong Orioles fan. I share your fear the current generation is missing out on that kind of relationship to the team, and that starts with ownership at the top.

However, my son for the first time in a while has gotten interested in the O's again with the arrival of Adley and Gunnar. Having some young stars playing competitively can do a lot for the franchise. If the franchise is set up to be bought by a committed ownership group that could be the best possible long term outcome. 

 

I appreciate you taking time to share that story!

I was not around back then and for most of my lifetime the O’s have not been a good team and they have definitely been poorly run. I have great memories of the offseason of 96 when we got Alomar. I remember very fondly the 97 “wire to wire” year. I remember when Camden was first built and the stadium being packed nightly.

I know that we are not going back to the good old days. But what we have now is a bad brand of a professional sports franchise in its market. IMO the Orioles are operating all wrong if they want to gain more interest of fans in this community. 

[Aristotelian]

4 hours ago, HakunaSakata said:

As for Rodon, he absolutely is that guy and, if he can stay healthy (big if) I actually think he'll be a better pitcher than Cole  this season. He's that good and being a lefty will help him tremendously because opposing teams won't be able to stack their lineups with left-handed bats at Yankee stadium to take advantage of the short porch.

He's had two excellent seasons but he's not Verlander/Scherzer-level. He also has a record of health issues and a string of mediocre seasons. I can absolutely see why a mid market team wouldn't want to commit to Rodon for 6+ years. How do you know Rodon won't turn into Robbie Ray (or worse) and can the O's afford that risk? 

[joelala]

When is it time for another Free the Birds protest? I think John’s comment about spending money AFTER fans start attending warrants some sort voicing of displeasure. 

[HakunaSakata]

50 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

He's had two excellent seasons but he's not Verlander/Scherzer-level. He also has a record of health issues and a string of mediocre seasons. I can absolutely see why a mid market team wouldn't want to commit to Rodon for 6+ years. How do you know Rodon won't turn into Robbie Ray (or worse) and can the O's afford that risk? 

You only quoted the second half of my post. I never even hinted or suggested that the Orioles should have been in Rodon. I was just taking issue with your comment about there still being questions about his ability. There are no questions about his ability, there are only questions about his health. As long as he's healthy he's a top 10 MLB SP, with upside for even higher. it wouldn't shock me if he won the Cy Young in 2023.

[Stram]

6 hours ago, Bemorewins said:

First, let me see that I appreciate your willingness to defend the Orioles actions as though you were pr or a great employee

But to attempt a response, I must say that I don't accept your premise of "Woe is us Orioles. Nobody wants to come here. These players/prices are so expensive." That is a self-defeating mentality that I has never been acceptable for me personally (given the circumstances I came from and in order to make it to the station in life that I am at now). So, I cannot accept/allow/understand such a mentality for a billion-dollar business.

As far as Verlander goes, he played in Detroit for many years and then Houston. So, what's so different about Baltimore? I have a guess... They were willing to pay him what he felt he was worth and we were not. As far as Rodon goes, I can see an argument made given his injury history. However, when he is the last domino and you need a frontline starter IF you have designs on winning next year, then you may have to seriously consider taking that gamble.

Now, to your overall point of cost Verlander at $90 + Bassitt at $64 + Rodon at $170 is what $324? Again that is not a half a billion dollars or really close. That would have only put our payroll up to 150/155ish.

I'm NOT arguing that we should have done all 3, but are you really going to try to argue with a straight face, that we couldn't have afforded ONE?

And if we can't afford them, you do know that Adley, Gunnar, and Grayson will cost MORE at some point?

At some point though - we have to accept that certain players just don't want to live in Baltimore when they can live in NY or LA with all that money. The city needs to improve its reputation in order for the team to attract some of these guys in FA because some of the players will just cross it off immediately regardless. Nobody on this board knows what offers the O's put out there. 

[Aristotelian]

9 minutes ago, HakunaSakata said:

You only quoted the second half of my post. I never even hinted or suggested that the Orioles should have been in Rodon. I was just taking issue with your comment about there still being questions about his ability. There are no questions about his ability, there are only questions about his health. As long as he's healthy he's a top 10 MLB SP, with upside for even higher. it wouldn't shock me if he won the Cy Young in 2023.

He's had some healthy years in the past that were pretty mediocre. He has a career 3.4 Bb/9 and K/9 took a huge jump recently that he never showed previously. Are you saying he was pitching hurt up til 2021? Obviously, he has been good the last two years.

[HakunaSakata]

16 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

He's had some healthy years in the past that were pretty mediocre. He has a career 3.4 Bb/9 and K/9 took a huge jump recently that he never showed previously. Are you saying he was pitching hurt up til 2021? Obviously, he has been good the last two years.

I'm saying it took him a bit longer to mature into the pitcher he is now. I watched him pitch quite a bit last season. He is absolutely filthy. 

[Bemorewins]

55 minutes ago, Stram said:

At some point though - we have to accept that certain players just don't want to live in Baltimore when they can live in NY or LA with all that money. The city needs to improve its reputation in order for the team to attract some of these guys in FA because some of the players will just cross it off immediately regardless. Nobody on this board knows what offers the O's put out there. 

I strongly DISAGREE wholeheartedly with most of what you are asserting. Are you telling me that it is the city of Baltimore's fault that the Orioles won't spend money?

Do you mind me asking if you are an employee of the Orioles? Because otherwise that's not very logical. Are you telling me that Detroit, Cleveland, Pittsburg, Houston, Cincinnati, Phoenix (in the Summer), Toronto (when it's not Summer), Tampa in the Summer, Minnesota, Oakland, St. Louis ... need I go on? Are all these gran desirable places? 

I get that some may want to go to LA or NY. But some do not because of the pressure and scrutiny that comes with playing for the Yanks. Here's what almost the vast majority of players and people want from their employers in a capitalist society .... MONEY (more of it than they can get elsewhere)!

If this were true, how do the Ravens attract desirable Free Agents consistently? I will tell you because the ORGANIZATION's reputation AND because they make offers that are competitive to what players believe they are worth. 

The city of Baltimore has MANY problems (I was born and grew up there), but I have travelled to most major cities in the US and it really is no different. And by the way the cities of LA, NY, and Chicago ALL have Major problems!

This argument may work on somebody who is less travelled. As for me, not so much.

[Morgan423]

Yuck.  Feels like there'd have been extra value for us in signing him, just to keep from having to face him four or five times a season going forward.

[terpoh]

43 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

I strongly DISAGREE wholeheartedly with most of what you are asserting. Are you telling me that it is the city of Baltimore's fault that the Orioles won't spend money?

Do you mind me asking if you are an employee of the Orioles? Because otherwise that's not very logical. Are you telling me that Detroit, Cleveland, Pittsburg, Houston, Cincinnati, Phoenix (in the Summer), Toronto (when it's not Summer), Tampa in the Summer, Minnesota, Oakland, St. Louis ... need I go on? Are all these gran desirable places? 

I get that some may want to go to LA or NY. But some do not because of the pressure and scrutiny that comes with playing for the Yanks. Here's what almost the vast majority of players and people want from their employers in a capitalist society .... MONEY (more of it than they can get elsewhere)!

If this were true, how do the Ravens attract desirable Free Agents consistently? I will tell you because the ORGANIZATION's reputation AND because they make offers that are competitive to what players believe they are worth. 

The city of Baltimore has MANY problems (I was born and grew up there), but I have travelled to most major cities in the US and it really is no different. And by the way the cities of LA, NY, and Chicago ALL have Major problems!

This argument may work on somebody who is less travelled. As for me, not so much.

Tampa and St. Pete are awesome. 

[Bemorewins]

1 hour ago, terpoh said:

Tampa and St. Pete are awesome. 

Again Facts…

Pinellas County has had one of the highest crime rates per capita going back to the 70’s. 
 

I’m really not tryin to go back and forth over this though. I just disagree that city of Baltimore is some sort of handicap for the Orioles success. It’s worked out okay for the Ravens.

The Orioles just need to do better.

[Hallas]

Damn.

 

I guess @Moose Milligan didn't get to spend the night with Sydney Sweeney either.

[terpoh]

17 hours ago, Bemorewins said:

Again Facts…

Pinellas County has had one of the highest crime rates per capita going back to the 70’s. 
 

I’m really not tryin to go back and forth over this though. I just disagree that city of Baltimore is some sort of handicap for the Orioles success. It’s worked out okay for the Ravens.

The Orioles just need to do better.

You have anything to back up those "facts?"

Also you listed those cities and asked if they are "desirable" not if their crime rates are high. I'd venture more people vacation or seek trips to Tampa/St Pete than to Baltimore.

Edited December 17, 2022 by terpoh