Rodon to the Yankees - 6 years / $162MM

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

56 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

Verlander was never coming to Baltimore at any price. He can pick his team and there is no way he is picking Baltimore. Aside from him most of the 4-6 WAR guys are not doing 1-2 year contracts. So you are looking at one $200M guy, another $100M guy, plus a bat. That's not quite $500M but it's more than you can reasonably expect the Orioles to pay. 

If you had confidence that Rodon was the guy to deliver you multiple WS appearances, maybe you pull the trigger, but I personally do not think he is that guy. 

Syndergaard was another pitching who was never going to come to Baltimore either. With his reputation a better team was likely to offer the same money and Dodgers did. 

Edited December 16, 2022 by OsFanSinceThe80s

[Bemorewins]

7 hours ago, Aristotelian said:

Verlander was never coming to Baltimore at any price. He can pick his team and there is no way he is picking Baltimore. Aside from him most of the 4-6 WAR guys are not doing 1-2 year contracts. So you are looking at one $200M guy, another $100M guy, plus a bat. That's not quite $500M but it's more than you can reasonably expect the Orioles to pay. 

If you had confidence that Rodon was the guy to deliver you multiple WS appearances, maybe you pull the trigger, but I personally do not think he is that guy. 

First, let me see that I appreciate your willingness to defend the Orioles actions as though you were pr or a great employee

But to attempt a response, I must say that I don't accept your premise of "Woe is us Orioles. Nobody wants to come here. These players/prices are so expensive." That is a self-defeating mentality that I has never been acceptable for me personally (given the circumstances I came from and in order to make it to the station in life that I am at now). So, I cannot accept/allow/understand such a mentality for a billion-dollar business.

As far as Verlander goes, he played in Detroit for many years and then Houston. So, what's so different about Baltimore? I have a guess... They were willing to pay him what he felt he was worth and we were not. As far as Rodon goes, I can see an argument made given his injury history. However, when he is the last domino and you need a frontline starter IF you have designs on winning next year, then you may have to seriously consider taking that gamble.

Now, to your overall point of cost Verlander at $90 + Bassitt at $64 + Rodon at $170 is what $324? Again that is not a half a billion dollars or really close. That would have only put our payroll up to 150/155ish.

I'm NOT arguing that we should have done all 3, but are you really going to try to argue with a straight face, that we couldn't have afforded ONE?

And if we can't afford them, you do know that Adley, Gunnar, and Grayson will cost MORE at some point?

[HakunaSakata]

8 hours ago, Aristotelian said:

Verlander was never coming to Baltimore at any price. He can pick his team and there is no way he is picking Baltimore. Aside from him most of the 4-6 WAR guys are not doing 1-2 year contracts. So you are looking at one $200M guy, another $100M guy, plus a bat. That's not quite $500M but it's more than you can reasonably expect the Orioles to pay. 

If you had confidence that Rodon was the guy to deliver you multiple WS appearances, maybe you pull the trigger, but I personally do not think he is that guy. 

EVERYONE has a price. Maybe the Orioles have to overpay, to land someone like Verlander, but that's the price you pay when you decide to essentially tank for 5+ seasons in order to rebuild your farm system. You also failed to mention Bassitt, who also didn't sign a long term deal and would have been a perfect fit. I don't think anyone is upset they didn't sign Rodon for six years, because that type of contract is far more riskier for a team that doesn't have unlimited funds like the Yankees. The angst is geared more towards them not being in on the "good" pitchers that signed shorter term deals and it's 100% justifiable given how the team did last season and more importantly Elias' comments about the Orioles being players in free agency this offseason. 

As for Rodon, he absolutely is that guy and, if he can stay healthy (big if) I actually think he'll be a better pitcher than Cole  this season. He's that good and being a lefty will help him tremendously because opposing teams won't be able to stack their lineups with left-handed bats at Yankee stadium to take advantage of the short porch.

[jerios55]

10 hours ago, Tony-OH said:

That really is the kind of contract a young, up and coming team that needs to make a splash for a #1 would want to make. But what do I know. 

So with injuries, I was a bit leery of Rodon, but certainly get the upside.

Wasn't there an article/tweet that he wanted to play for the Yankees and they thought they could get him for slightly less?  

While the offseason is disappointing so far, I don't think we had a shot at getting Rodon with the same 6/162mill deal.  

[Aristotelian]

57 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

First, let me see that I appreciate your willingness to defend the Orioles actions as though you were pr or a great employee

But to attempt a response, I must say that I don't accept your premise of "Woe is us Orioles. Nobody wants to come here. These players/prices are so expensive." That is a self-defeating mentality that I has never been acceptable for me personally (given the circumstances I came from and in order to make it to the station in life that I am at now). So, I cannot accept/allow/understand such a mentality for a billion-dollar business.

As far as Verlander goes, he played in Detroit for many years and then Houston. So, what's so different about Baltimore? I have a guess... They were willing to pay him what he felt he was worth and we were not. As far as Rodon goes, I can see an argument made given his injury history. However, when he is the last domino and you need a frontline starter IF you have designs on winning next year, then you may have to seriously consider taking that gamble.

Now, to your overall point of cost Verlander at $90 + Bassitt at $64 + Rodon at $170 is what $324? Again that is not a half a billion dollars or really close. That would have only put our payroll up to 150/155ish.

I'm NOT arguing that we should have done all 3, but are you really going to try to argue with a straight face, that we couldn't have afforded ONE?

And if we can't afford them, you do know that Adley, Gunnar, and Grayson will cost MORE at some point?

Absolutely, my only issue was picking Verlander to make it appears easy to get under $500b. We definitely could have afforded one and I gave the offseason to date a D on the other thread. I am disappointed for sure.

I also understand in any competitive bidding process, you not only have to match the other 29 teams, you have to beat them. You can't just pick a contract and assume they will come to Baltimore for $1M more. Agree to disagree on Verlander. He is already set for life several times over. Money is no longer his top concern. He clearly picker his team, asked thm to match the Scherzer deal, and signed. Bassit as well may have accepted a team friendly deal to stay on a playoff team where he had success. I think on the O's side the QO was in play and Bassitt's age was a concern. Not sure he was the guy for us. 

[kidrock]

11 hours ago, Tony-OH said:

That is really not a bad deal for a 30 year old pitcher.

Of course he comes into the AL East.

But hey, we sign a 31-year old 2B who OPS'd .612 last year for $8 million. Pretty much the same.

I dont post much, but try to read frequently.  But your humor/sarcasm is killing me Tony.  Much needed right now.  I have a lot of respect for Elias and Sig and what they have done to help this club, but I can't understand the Frazier piece for the life of me.  Please keep the humor coming.

 

On Rodon - really not a bad deal if you can get 4 decent to good seasons out of him.

[tabletop]

 

Hey, at least the O's don't have to worry about him getting hurt. Who cares that he's only 30 and has been arguably the best pitcher in baseball over the last 2 seasons?

[Bemorewins]

@Aristotelian there were plenty of other pitchers who signed 3 and 4 year deal including Tijuan Walker, Jameson Taillon, Jose Quintana, Tyler Anderson to name some.

The fact that we did NOTHING to significantly improve the team given the upcoming roster that we have speaks to in my mind a lack of willingness to compete at the highest level. 

I have hard time hearing/comprehending/empathizing with the "woe is us" cry from a billion-dollar business. If the John Angelos is that cash poor, then sell the team already!

How the organization is operating is embarrassing. If an argument can be made as to why free agents may not want to come or take us serious, it is because we don't operate in a manner that is attractive and excellent. The Orioles have to change their reputation in the industry by doing things different to how they have done. It's one thing to have all of these young assets, it's another thing to know how to utilize them to build a team capable of winning a pennant. If they were able to cast a compelling vision of that future to almost any free agent AND be willing to pay them what the market says they are worth; they would sign.

[Aristotelian]

7 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

@Aristotelian there were plenty of other pitchers who signed 3 and 4 year deal including Tijuan Walker, Jameson Taillon, Jose Quintana, Tyler Anderson to name some.

The fact that we did NOTHING to significantly improve the team given the upcoming roster that we have speaks to in my mind a lack of willingness to compete at the highest level. 

I have hard time hearing/comprehending/empathizing with the "woe is us" cry from a billion-dollar business. If the John Angelos is that cash poor, then sell the team already!

How the organization is operating is embarrassing. If an argument can be made as to why free agents may not want to come or take us serious, it is because we don't operate in a manner that is attractive and excellent. The Orioles have to change their reputation in the industry by doing things different to how they have done. It's one thing to have all of these young assets, it's another thing to know how to utilize them to build a team capable of winning a pennant. If they were able to cast a compelling vision of that future to almost any free agent AND be willing to pay them what the market says they are worth; they would sign.

Agreed on the players you mentioned and the overall disappointment. I was responding to Verlander/Bassitt. It did sound like we tried on Taillon, just got outbid. And then again, Taillon is clearly not as good as the Rodon level guys. Would it really be worth it to go to $18M AAV for a guy who has averaged 2 WAR? Or could we find that 2 WAR some other way, and see if Bradish can replicate Taillon? These are the questions Elias is dealing with. 

I also agree that if they are selling the team they should get it over with. That would help explain the lack of action and the right ownership could really excite the fanbase once in place. It sounds like at various points John and Georgia have tried to sell the team. Unfortunately the reasons it hasn't happened yet may be out of their control.

[Bemorewins]

3 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

Agreed on the players you mentioned and the overall disappointment. I was responding to Verlander/Bassitt. It did sound like we tried on Taillon, just got outbid. And then again, Taillon is clearly not as good as the Rodon level guys. Would it really be worth it to go to $18M AAV for a guy who has averaged 2 WAR? Or could we find that 2 WAR some other way, and see if Bradish can replicate Taillon? These are the questions Elias is dealing with. 

I also agree that if they are selling the team they should get it over with. That would help explain the lack of action and the right ownership could really excite the fanbase once in place. It sounds like at various points John and Georgia have tried to sell the team. Unfortunately the reasons it hasn't happened yet may be out of their control.

I'm pretty sure that MLB would want the team sold. What the Orioles are doing is in the best interest of no one except the Angelos family. The fans don't benefit, the players don't benefit, the sport doesn't benefit to have one of their 30 teams run in such a manner.

After this fiasco of an offseason and the Orioles willingness to alienate the fanbase in such an unforced way, what will be left of the fan interest in the market? It was starting to come back, people were beginning to believe that things would be different, the flame was just beginning to bud. And then for no rational reason, in the most self-harming way possible, they decided "You know what? Fans, we don't need no stinkin' fans!"

For the life of me, I can't understand why they would do this? ... People who are using overpaying players as a rational must fall to see this. You had to do SOMETHING to show the fans in good faith that we can be trusted. You can't expect to put your fanbase through what you put them through for 4 years, then surprising have a winning season. Trade away players in a playoff push and tell the fans "not yet, be patient, our time is coming." And then in the offseason do this!

The odds are after this, attendance is going to go down, not up. There are very few fans that I encounter around town or on Twitter who are excited about next year. The Orioles ruined it, for no good reason.

[interloper]

Erik Bedard 2.0.

[deward]

10 hours ago, Aristotelian said:

Verlander was never coming to Baltimore at any price. He can pick his team and there is no way he is picking Baltimore. Aside from him most of the 4-6 WAR guys are not doing 1-2 year contracts. So you are looking at one $200M guy, another $100M guy, plus a bat. That's not quite $500M but it's more than you can reasonably expect the Orioles to pay. 

If you had confidence that Rodon was the guy to deliver you multiple WS appearances, maybe you pull the trigger, but I personally do not think he is that guy. 

Wait, what happened to the young, exciting team and THE WALL being the draws that would lure in free agent pitchers? Doesn't seem to be working...

[Tony-OH]

1 hour ago, jerios55 said:

So with injuries, I was a bit leery of Rodon, but certainly get the upside.

Wasn't there an article/tweet that he wanted to play for the Yankees and they thought they could get him for slightly less?  

While the offseason is disappointing so far, I don't think we had a shot at getting Rodon with the same 6/162mill deal.  

I don't think we had any shot as well. There is no way this ownership, and perhaps risk adverse Elias would do something like that. 

We are not going to be able to outspend the Yankees on a player they want.

 

 

 

 

[Frobby]

39 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

 

After this fiasco of an offseason and the Orioles willingness to alienate the fanbase in such an unforced way, what will be left of the fan interest in the market? It was starting to come back, people were beginning to believe that things would be different, the flame was just beginning to bud. And then for no rational reason, in the most self-harming way possible, they decided "You know what? Fans, we don't need no stinkin' fans!"

I think you’re being overly dramatic.   The offseason isn’t over, and no matter what, the team should be decent to good next year and fans are going to come out if the team wins often enough.  Could they goose season ticket sales a bit with some flashy signings?  Yeah, probably, but I don’t think it would have a huge impact.  

[Bemorewins]

1 hour ago, Frobby said:

I think you’re being overly dramatic.   The offseason isn’t over, and no matter what, the team should be decent to good next year and fans are going to come out if the team wins often enough.  Could they goose season ticket sales a bit with some flashy signings?  Yeah, probably, but I don’t think it would have a huge impact.  

I disagree, decent to a little above 500 won’t do anything. That was last year and after the rhetoric during the later part of the season and into the offseason, and then with the meager actions shown; I think what you will is an attitude “of same old Orioles” amongst a good portion of people in the market who still care and are willing to go to games. IMO this was a bad decision on behalf of the franchise to do further damage to the brand amongst the fans in this market.

 But hey I hope that you are right.