Poll: Do you like the Adam Frazier signing?

[Tony-OH]

1 hour ago, eddie83 said:

I’m glad this thread was started since I promised I would not comment on the other Frazier thread anymore!!! Loophole. 

I'm here to help!

[JR Oriole]

Strategic fit is definitely questionable.  The cost is nothing.  $8 million is pennies to most franchise owners.  The Os have committed $23 million and 3 combined years to 3 free agents.  The Mets are on the hook for $716 million and 32 combined years to 7 free agents.  If the cost of Frazier prevents us from doing anything, then we are simply too poor and slow to play in this industry. 

[Tony-OH]

58 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

How does 30% of those who voted in this think this is a good idea? That’s astounding to me. 

I do think Elias has built up this aura for some. I think we all agree that he's done a great job with drafting and development and changing the way this organizations uses analytics and technology at the major and minor league levels. 

But some people, and I'm not making this derogatory at all so no one should read into this as this is one person in particular, but some people then think he can do no wrong. 

The Frazier signing is a perfect example of this. Now, is it possible that Frazier finds a way to defeat being a year older, slower and with bottom of the barrel EVs, sure, is it likely, no. Plus he plays a position where we have a prospect ready (Westburg) and another who may be ready (Ortiz) with two major league options in Urias and Mateo. 

No obviously there are gives and takes with offense and defense with each of those players, and they all hit right-handed. 

I'll be honest, had they signed Frazier to a reasonable $3 million or less contract and he was going to be a left-handed option at 2B or corner outfield on occasion as a backup, I'd have less issues. 

Elias is going out on serious limb here because he's telling everyone (fans, other GMs, his own prospects) that he knows better then any conventional statistics or metrics by giving Frazier $8 million and installing him as his everyday 2B (occasional OF would also be a fail since he already has Stowers and Cowser could be ready by mid-season).

He did the same with Odor and Aguilar and they were fails. If Frazier fails, then we have to start worrying that the evaluators and the "process" may not be very good when identifying major league options to help his team.

 

[Sports Guy]

18 minutes ago, Frobby said:

As I’ve said, I suspect the Frazier move sets up a trade that obviates the need to go after a FA pitcher.   But If not, I don’t buy that one $8 mm, one-year expenditure prevents them from doing anything they choose on the FA market.  

We didn’t need to sign Frazier to make a move with one or 2 MIers.

[Moose Milligan]

I don’t hate it as much as I did when it was first announced but I still don’t like it and I voted no. 

It’s a one year deal which is fine, but it still doesn’t make sense considering the middle infield talent this organization has and should be able to promote to Baltimore in ‘23. 
 

So he doesn’t make sense, the dollars don’t make sense but it’s only for one season at least. 

[Frobby]

1 minute ago, Sports Guy said:

We didn’t need to sign Frazier to make a move with one or 2 MIers.

I’m done arguing about it, until we see if any trades are made and what they are.  

[Sports Guy]

2 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

I do think Elias has built up this aura for some. I think we all agree that he's done a great job with drafting and development and changing the way this organizations uses analytics and technology at the major and minor league levels. 

But some people, and I'm not making this derogatory at all so no one should read into this as this is one person in particular, but some people then think he can do no wrong. 

The Frazier signing is a perfect example of this. Now, is it possible that Frazier finds a way to defeat being a year older, slower and with bottom of the barrel EVs, sure, is it likely, no. Plus he plays a position where we have a prospect ready (Westburg) and another who may be ready (Ortiz) with two major league options in Urias and Mateo. 

No obviously there are gives and takes with offense and defense with each of those players, and they all hit right-handed. 

I'll be honest, had they signed Frazier to a reasonable $3 million or less contract and he was going to be a left-handed option at 2B or corner outfield on occasion as a backup, I'd have less issues. 

Elias is going out on serious limb here because he's telling everyone (fans, other GMs, his own prospects) that he knows better then any conventional statistics or metrics by giving Frazier $8 million and installing him as his everyday 2B (occasional OF would also be a fail since he already has Stowers and Cowser could be ready by mid-season).

He did the same with Odor and Aguilar and they were fails. If Frazier fails, then we have to start worrying that the evaluators and the "process" may not be very good when identifying major league options to help his team.

 

Yea, if they signed Frazier to a cheap deal because they don’t feel Vavra can be that guy, so be it. I wouldn’t like the thought but I can sort of get behind that.

But to actually start and take time away from real prospects and knowing that he will be in that position of regular at bats for most, if not the whole year, is horrible.

There is no defending this move..not with any logic or common sense.  The defenses from people are flimsy at best and they aren’t based on anything real.  It’s all fantasyland type stuff.

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

1 minute ago, Sports Guy said:

We didn’t need to sign Frazier to make a move with one or 2 MIers.

That’s my main concern with the Frazier signing. Elias could probably trade two middle infielders from the organization and it still wouldn’t make sense to sign Frazier for $8 million. 

Why with up and coming prospects do you sign a player who is going to block them when he gets 500 at bats next season. I have to think there is a trade coming for Mateo or Urias or this move makes even less sense. 

[RZNJ]

3 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Yea, if they signed Frazier to a cheap deal because they don’t feel Vavra can be that guy, so be it. I wouldn’t like the thought but I can sort of get behind that.

But to actually start and take time away from real prospects and knowing that he will be in that position of regular at bats for most, if not the whole year, is horrible.

There is no defending this move..not with any logic or common sense.  The defenses from people are flimsy at best and they aren’t based on anything real.  It’s all fantasyland type stuff.

We get it. It’s indefensible and horrific!!!!!

 

[eddie83]

1 minute ago, Sports Guy said:

I have seen the reasons..I just view them as all awful. No one has presented a good viable reason why this is a smart move.

The best thing that anyone has come up with is, what if they trade 2 or more MIers and then you need someone to play there.

What I see is this. Many of the reasons used slamming the move are an attempt to show faults with Elias and are emotionally driven. I find the examples to be laughable and weak. 
 

This man brought in Voth, Baker, Perez, Mateo and Urias off waivers. Waivers. Wells was Rule 5. He inherited some talent -Mullins, Hays, Santander, Mountcastle, etc - but he got an enormous amount of production from scrap heap players for nothing. Last year when he signed Lyles some people complained. He ate 180 innings, it had value. You could argue any of us could have drafted Adley. He drafted Gunnar and all the rest of the position player prospects behind them. Now without question when you have high picks that helps. 
 

The man has money in his pocket - prospects not real money - but does not want to spend it yet. Nothing he has done has impacted the future of the team. Nothing. People whine that the Frazier signing is costing them elsewhere when it isn’t. Saying that it’s to justify the service time game. That’s not a legit argument. It just isn’t. All the complaining that Aguilar getting 51 PA’s which included 20 at bats vs LHP instead of Stowers.  All the complaining about Phillips which was 17 at bats. Playing Odor over Vavra when Vavra - a player he acquired in a trade- has never to my knowledge been considered a solid defender at 2nd. People act like these are some kind of a gotcha moment. This is the smallest SSS argument I have ever seen in my life. If moves like those are the criteria to criticize a GM I find it to be amusing. It’s a big bag of nothing. It’s nitpicking 101. 
 

We have a fan base that wanted and expected more. Especially with the pitching. I am the same. That said he is adding a player to a “massive” one year deal at $8M and has not harmed a thing. Nothing. Nobody is gone. Is it possible Frazier is a bust? Of course it is. 
 

For the entire time I have been on this board when a prospect shows promise they need to be at big leagues no question asked. All he is doing here is adding a player he likes to the roster and not losing a thing. No permanent decision that you can’t adjust or take back has been made. 
 

Frazier unlike the popular Odor has a competent glove and has positional flexibility. They will give him a shot. Obviously they see something they like. Could they be wrong? Of course. They are adding a big leaguer with a resume,  albeit a flawed one on a one year deal with money that is not impacting anything else. I am supposed to believe that the playing time that Frazier gets will cost the Orioles the playoffs? 
 

Elias will make plenty of mistakes. He never should have said a #1-3 SP if he was not sure he had the $ to pull it off. Just say I want to add to the rotation with up to 2 spots. Don’t comment on the division, keep it to yourself. He is not perfect. In this spot he is adding a player you don’t like and because it “blocks” someone you want in Westburg -who was already blocked by Urias- it bothers you. It doesn’t bother me at all. All these position players on the infield will work itself out. Adding to it will not harm it, making the wrong trades and keeping the wrong players will harm it. 
 

This is a move that creates more depth with money that was not going to be used on the biggest need which is a SP. How Elias juggles the infield talent in the next year or so is the story. Adding a competent player to a team that is competing for a playoff spot is acceptable and smart. 

[Sports Guy]

1 minute ago, eddie83 said:

What I see is this. Many of the reasons used slamming the move are an attempt to show faults with Elias and are emotionally driven. I find the examples to be laughable and weak. 
 

This man brought in Voth, Baker, Perez, Mateo and Urias off waivers. Waivers. Wells was Rule 5. He inherited some talent -Mullins, Hays, Santander, Mountcastle, etc - but he got an enormous amount of production from scrap heap players for nothing. Last year when he signed Lyles some people complained. He ate 180 innings, it had value. You could argue any of us could have drafted Adley. He drafted Gunnar and all the rest of the position player prospects behind them. Now without question when you have high picks that helps. 
 

The man has money in his pocket - prospects not real money - but does not want to spend it yet. Nothing he has done has impacted the future of the team. Nothing. People whine that the Frazier signing is costing them elsewhere when it isn’t. Saying that it’s to justify the service time game. That’s not a legit argument. It just isn’t. All the complaining that Aguilar getting 51 PA’s which included 20 at bats vs LHP instead of Stowers.  All the complaining about Phillips which was 17 at bats. Playing Odor over Vavra when Vavra - a player he acquired in a trade- has never to my knowledge been considered a solid defender at 2nd. People act like these are some kind of a gotcha moment. This is the smallest SSS argument I have ever seen in my life. If moves like those are the criteria to criticize a GM I find it to be amusing. It’s a big bag of nothing. It’s nitpicking 101. 
 

We have a fan base that wanted and expected more. Especially with the pitching. I am the same. That said he is adding a player to a “massive” one year deal at $8M and has not harmed a thing. Nothing. Nobody is gone. Is it possible Frazier is a bust? Of course it is. 
 

For the entire time I have been on this board when a prospect shows promise they need to be at big leagues no question asked. All he is doing here is adding a player he likes to the roster and not losing a thing. No permanent decision that you can’t adjust or take back has been made. 
 

Frazier unlike the popular Odor has a competent glove and has positional flexibility. They will give him a shot. Obviously they see something they like. Could they be wrong? Of course. They are adding a big leaguer with a resume,  albeit a flawed one on a one year deal with money that is not impacting anything else. I am supposed to believe that the playing time that Frazier gets will cost the Orioles the playoffs? 
 

Elias will make plenty of mistakes. He never should have said a #1-3 SP if he was not sure he had the $ to pull it off. Just say I want to add to the rotation with up to 2 spots. Don’t comment on the division, keep it to yourself. He is not perfect. In this spot he is adding a player you don’t like and because it “blocks” someone you want in Westburg -who was already blocked by Urias- it bothers you. It doesn’t bother me at all. All these position players on the infield will work itself out. Adding to it will not harm it, making the wrong trades and keeping the wrong players will harm it. 
 

This is a move that creates more depth with money that was not going to be used on the biggest need which is a SP. How Elias juggles the infield talent in the next year or so is the story. Adding a competent player to a team that is competing for a playoff spot is acceptable and smart. 

Thats a lot of words to say nothing at all

[interloper]

Lol this feels unnecessary

[eddie83]

1 minute ago, Sports Guy said:

Thats a lot of words to say nothing at all

You asked a question. I answered it. Yes I went long but I was trying to summarize my thoughts. 
 

Go ahead and challenge what I said. Go do it. 

[eddie83]

Just now, interloper said:

Lol this feels unnecessary

It is necessary. Tony needs board activity and no other SP has been added. Plus it’s Christmas time. The board will slow down anyway. Just embrace it.  

[DrinkinWithFermi]

Frazier has not been good in a year and a half, he blocks prospects, and he prevents the team from actually getting better.

Complete waste of $8 million dollars and a roster spot.