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Do you want Wacha, and if so, what terms can you live with?

Frobby

By Frobby
in Orioles Talk

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On what terms would you want Wacha?  

86 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you want Wacha, and if so, what terms can you live with?

    • Yes, and if it takes 2/$24 mm, so be it
      15
    • Yes, but only for 1/$12 mm or less
      27
    • Yes, but only for 1/$10 mm or less
      18
    • Yes, but only for some figure south of $10 mm
      12
    • I don’t want Wacha regardless of the price
      15

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  • Poll closed on 01/29/23 at 02:04

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Frobby Hangout Grand Counsel

Frobby

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2 hours ago, wildcard said:

You apparently don't have the confidence I have in Holt to get the best out of his pitchers.  I don't think Zimmerman has the stuff.   He would be my next guy voted off the island.

We will learn a lot this year about how good Holt is.  We had a lot of pitchers whose expected ERA based on batted ball data was much higher than their actual ERA.   (Details here.)  in some cases, the new LF dimensions may explain that.  In other cases, it may have been the kind of fluky thing that can happen over a single season.   So, I’m concerned that some of the ERA improvement we saw last year may not be sustainable.   Notice that I said “may not,” not “will not.”   We’ll see.   I’m not a Holt detractor, I just want to see results over more than a single season, especially since the results weren’t good in 2021.   (Yeah, he missed a month due to personal reasons, blah blah blah.)  He certainly has gotten kudos from various pitchers on the staff, but most players only say positive things about their coaches so I can only put so much stock in that.   Like I said, let’s see another year of results.  

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ThisIsBirdland
ThisIsBirdland

Posted this in another thread, but give him a deal similar to Givens. 1 year + a team option if he performs well enough, with a buyout if the O's don't exercise. So something like a 1/$10m + a $1

Orange
Orange

So, we’ve got six primary candidates for the five rotation spots. If you assume one guy fizzles and one gets a major injury you’re left with just four guys. If you sign Wacha, then HE can be the injur

Jagwar
Jagwar

I'm guessing he wouldn't accept a minor league deal with a ST invite...  

Frobby Hangout Grand Counsel

Frobby

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8 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

The 2 best pitching coaches for the Os last year were the new wall and the humidor.

 

There’s truth in that, but the team ERA+ did go from 77 to 102.   In theory, that number is adjusted for park effects and leaguewide offensive environment.  

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Sports Guy Hangout Grand Counsel

Sports Guy

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4 minutes ago, Frobby said:

There’s truth in that, but the team ERA+ did go from 77 to 102.   In theory, that number is adjusted for park effects and leaguewide offensive environment.  

Yes it is but I don’t think those things do some of that stuff justice. There’s a mental part of the game that it doesn’t get into as well.

End of the day, the improvement came from those things. As you said, one year doesn’t tell us much about any coach. The hitters had the opposite effect. 

You need a lot more data to talk about the effectiveness of coaching.
 

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LTO's Major Leaguer

LTO's

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48 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

The hitters had the opposite effect. 

Did it? Seems like the offensive production wasn't affected nearly as much. The reason, like the pitching, is that the players are just getting better. How much that had to do with coaching is always going to arbitrary. 

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Frobby Hangout Grand Counsel

Frobby

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2 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

Yes it is but I don’t think those things do some of that stuff justice. There’s a mental part of the game that it doesn’t get into as well.

End of the day, the improvement came from those things. As you said, one year doesn’t tell us much about any coach. The hitters had the opposite effect. 

You need a lot more data to talk about the effectiveness of coaching.
 

The hitters did not have the opposite effect.  They had a 92 OPS+ in 2021, 97 in 2022.   They improved in runs scored despite the humidor and the wall.   

There’s no question in my mind that some of the pitching improvement in 2022 was real.  But how much?

I do agree that the park factors may not fully account for the impact of the wall.  
 

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Sports Guy Hangout Grand Counsel

Sports Guy

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Frobby said:

The hitters did not have the opposite effect.  They had a 92 OPS+ in 2021, 97 in 2022.   They improved in runs scored despite the humidor and the wall.   

There’s no question in my mind that some of the pitching improvement in 2022 was real.  But how much?

I do agree that the park factors may not fully account for the impact of the wall.  
 

When I said the hitters, I was talking about in terms of the coaching.  We didn’t see as big a jump.(and with a background of wildcard hyping up Holt but recently questioning the hitting coaches)

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Frobby Hangout Grand Counsel

Frobby

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21 hours ago, Going Underground said:

The Ray's locked up another of their players to a few additional years 

Per MLBTR:

TEAMS

Rays Extend Jeffrey Springs

January 25th, 2023 at 2:10pm CST • By Darragh McDonald

The Rays and left-hander Jeffrey Springs have signed a contract extension, reports Marc Topkin of the Tampa Bay Times (Twitter links). Springs will get $31MM over four years but there’s a club option for 2027 and incentives that could lead to Springs earning $65.75MM. Joel Sherman of The New York Post provides a breakdown of the deal, with Springs earning $4MM this year, $5.25MM next year, followed by $10.5MM in each of the following two seasons. Topkin adds that there’s a $750K buyout on a $15MM option for 2027. Springs was set to reach free agency after 2024, so this could allow the Rays to secure him for three additional seasons, if they end up triggering that option.

I love it when multi-year contracts are handed out to players in our division who I’ve literally never heard of.  One thing about the Rays, they’re confident in their evaluation of their own players and aren’t afraid to act on those evaluations.  

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HakunaSakata Major Leaguer Rising Star

HakunaSakata

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26 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I love it when multi-year contracts are handed out to players in our division who I’ve literally never heard of.  One thing about the Rays, they’re confident in their evaluation of their own players and aren’t afraid to act on those evaluations.  

You've never heard of Springs? He was low key very good last season. I think they were very smart to lock him up (and let  Rasmussen go). I'm not sure about the Eflin signing though. They must see something there that I don't. 

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