2023 Ongoing Lineup Thread

[banks703]

19 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

He’s never been seen as a definitive CFer. Zero people doubt Holliday can stay at SS. Cowser was a guy who was a “we think he has a chance” to stick in CF.  They didn’t draft Cowser because he’s a CFer like they did with Holliday. You are comparing apples to Buicks there.
 

He’s not a true ML CFer. He is a guy you can play there but that doesn’t mean that’s his future.

Buddy, this is factually inaccurate on both players. There are a lot of folks who DO question whether or not Holliday will end up as a ML SS. It’s also been beat up all over this board. His being the current top prospect in baseball isn’t because of his defense at SS. Let’s be honest about that. And the org has already started moving him around the infield so it could be stated that they see him as a “we think he has a chance to stick at SS (but let’s start getting him reps at other positions just in case)”, right?
 

Cowser was drafted as a CF with every intention of him playing CF, getting player comps to Brandon Nimmo. If the org didn’t have a breakout from Cedric, Hays would have been roaming CF the last few years. The same will go for Cowser with Mullins in CF right now and with EBJ as the CF of the future. There were a lot of folks who didn’t like the Cowser pick at the time but there were not questions about whether he could stick in CF. He reached the ML in less than two years and probably could have been promoted earlier this year, in part because of his ability to play defense in the outfield.  
 

Just because Hays and Cowser aren’t as good as Mullins right now (maybe the best ball-hawk in baseball) doesn’t mean that Hays and Cowser aren’t ML level players at the position. There are lots of teams in baseball that would take either guy as their starting CF right now.

I’ll agree that Cowser probably does NOT play much CF for the O’s but that’s not because he can’t. It’s because of who is in the system. 
 

 

[banks703]

10 minutes ago, Greg Pappas said:

Regarding Cowser's defensive abilities, I agree with SG that Cowser is a capable CF, but may not be ideally suited there.  Here's an excerpt from MiLB.com:

Some scouts doesn't mean all, naturally.  Being able to play CF just adds more value to his profile, regardless of where he winds up.

He also saw his college career start with him playing 3B because SHS had a stacked outfield. 
 

Read more of the draft analysis of him. There’s far more written by people who actually saw him play vs. what this dude read in box scores. Plus, this was written right around the draft if I’m not mistaken. 
 

I’m not arguing that Cowser likely does not play CF much in Baltimore. You don’t move Cedric Mullins out of CF for literally anyone. I’m only arguing that Cowser is perfectly capable to play CF and was drafted to do so. 
 

 

 

Edited July 16, 2023 by banks703

[Greg Pappas]

5 minutes ago, banks703 said:

He also saw his college career start with him playing 3B because SHS had a stacked outfield. 
 

Read more of the draft analysis of him. There’s far more written by people who actually saw him play vs. what this dude read in box scores. 
 

I’m not arguing that Cowser likely does not play CF much in Baltimore. You don’t move Cedric Mullins out of CF for literally anyone. I’m only arguing that Cowser is perfectly capable to play CF and was drafted to do so. 

I find your response about that writer odd... "...what this dude read in box scores."  Huh?  FWIW I did go back and add more to that post. 

I'm not opining that Cowser can't play CF, as I feel he's capable, and said so. He has an average to above average arm and would likely be just fine in CF... maybe even better than just fine.  I agree that it's unlikely he'll do that in Baltimore a lot, injuries aside.

[LA2]

20 minutes ago, Greg Pappas said:

Not to knock you, but while McKenna plays a solid OF at all three spots, he has proven thus far that he's an awful hitter.  To be fair, he has not received regular playing time, but in his 458 Plate Appearance career in the majors, he has the following stats: 
6 HR's, 35 RBI, 4 for 5 in SB's, 40 BB's, 155 K's, .218 BA/.297 OBP/.319 SLG/.617 OPS/ 74 OPS+

Even his eight year minors career showed only a .760 OPS.
  

No knock received . I didn't think it was necessary to state that it was McKenna as a platooned hitter I was suggesting (again, only as Devil's Advocate--I'm not a McKenna fan, as I am for Hicks), since the discussion had been about Cowser being left-handed, etc. Both last year (.794) and this (.717), McKenna has shown himself to be better against LHP, esp. for someone whose defensive skill seems to be highly valued by the O's. Not clear at all that Cowser can exceed those figures against LHP and Frazier is already a LH bat we can use as a 5th outfielder.

[waroriole]

22 minutes ago, banks703 said:

Buddy, this is factually inaccurate on both players. There are a lot of folks who DO question whether or not Holliday will end up as a ML SS. It’s also been beat up all over this board. His being the current top prospect in baseball isn’t because of his defense at SS. Let’s be honest about that. And the org has already started moving him around the infield so it could be stated that they see him as a “we think he has a chance to stick at SS (but let’s start getting him reps at other positions just in case)”, right?
 

Cowser was drafted as a CF with every intention of him playing CF, getting player comps to Brandon Nimmo. If the org didn’t have a breakout from Cedric, Hays would have been roaming CF the last few years. The same will go for Cowser with Mullins in CF right now and with EBJ as the CF of the future. There were a lot of folks who didn’t like the Cowser pick at the time but there were not questions about whether he could stick in CF. He reached the ML in less than two years and probably could have been promoted earlier this year, in part because of his ability to play defense in the outfield.  
 

Just because Hays and Cowser aren’t as good as Mullins right now (maybe the best ball-hawk in baseball) doesn’t mean that Hays and Cowser aren’t ML level players at the position. There are lots of teams in baseball that would take either guy as their starting CF right now.

I’ll agree that Cowser probably does NOT play much CF for the O’s but that’s not because he can’t. It’s because of who is in the system. 
 

 

You had me until you started talking about Hays being a capable CF. He’s barely a capable LF. 

[eddie83]

47 minutes ago, Billy F-Face3 said:

No way a guy who was just drafted a week ago makes the major league roster in a month or 2. Not happening.

Anyone remember Quintin Berry on the 2014 Orioles? The whole point of calling him up would be for base stealing. 
 

I’m not saying they are going to do it but the idea is not crazy at all. 

[banks703]

21 minutes ago, waroriole said:

You had me until you started talking about Hays being a capable CF. He’s barely a capable LF. 

The advanced stats yeah yeah. This is the reality though. Hays would have been in CF if it weren’t for Ced’s breakout a few years back. 

Hays offered an explanation for why the advanced stats don’t like him, specifically on his late breaks on balls. I know what these advanced stats indicate but he plays a fine LF. He’s not Mark Trumbo out there. 

[Mooreisbetter27]

1 Henderson SS

2 Rutschman DH

3 Santander RF

4 O’Hearn 1B

5 Hicks CF

6 Urias 3B

7 Cowser LF

8 Frazier 2B

9 McCann C

Is Okert definitely going? He pitched 1.1 innings last night and this seems like a lefty heavy lineup. 

[86this]

6 minutes ago, Mooreisbetter27 said:

1 Henderson SS

2 Rutschman DH

3 Santander RF

4 O’Hearn 1B

5 Hicks CF

6 Urias 3B

7 Cowser LF

8 Frazier 2B

9 McCann C

Is Okert definitely going? He pitched 1.1 innings last night and this seems like a lefty heavy lineup. 

Okert is probably just opening and pitching 1 inning.  Anything beyond that, you have to wonder about the management of this team.  I would think Hyde is expecting a righty to come in at the bottom of the 2nd inning.

[Bemorewins]

12 minutes ago, Mooreisbetter27 said:

1 Henderson SS

2 Rutschman DH

3 Santander RF

4 O’Hearn 1B

5 Hicks CF

6 Urias 3B

7 Cowser LF

8 Frazier 2B

9 McCann C

Is Okert definitely going? He pitched 1.1 innings last night and this seems like a lefty heavy lineup. 

I figured Westburg “earned” a day off after the last couple of tough games. But I wonder why no Hays? It’s not like he needs a day off 2 days after the all-star break. It’s okay if we don’t play Hicks everyday. Especially given the fact that he hasn’t hit much the last couple of weeks.

[Mooreisbetter27]

1 minute ago, Bemorewins said:

I figured Westburg “earned” a day off after the last couple of tough games. But I wonder why no Hays? It’s not like he needs a day off 2 days after the all-star break. It’s okay if we don’t play Hicks everyday. Especially given the fact that he hasn’t hit much the last couple of weeks.

I’m guessing they prefer Hicks in center to either Cowser or Hays but I tend to agree.. Hays not playing is a bit odd. I think 86 is prob right that Hyde is expecting a righty after the opener. Guess we will see. 

[Bahama O's Fan]

So, I'm guessing the long men in the Marlins pen are righties

[Bemorewins]

5 minutes ago, Mooreisbetter27 said:

I’m guessing they prefer Hicks in center to either Cowser or Hays but I tend to agree.. Hays not playing is a bit odd. I think 86 is prob right that Hyde is expecting a righty after the opener. Guess we will see. 

Hays does not need a platoon. He hits rights and lefties about the same. Honestly I would have preferred Hays DHing if Hicks has to be in CF and giving Adley a full day of rest. 

[Spy Fox]

26 minutes ago, 86this said:

Okert is probably just opening and pitching 1 inning.  Anything beyond that, you have to wonder about the management of this team.  I would think Hyde is expecting a righty to come in at the bottom of the 2nd inning.

15 minutes ago, Bahama O's Fan said:

So, I'm guessing the long men in the Marlins pen are righties

Cueto was recently added to the Miami bullpen after about a month at AAA, where he struggled greatly. I suspect it might be a bulk inning appearance for him after Okert opens. 

What I don't know is, why aren't they starting Luzardo here? I can't see any injury news about him anywhere. 

[86this]

3 minutes ago, Spy Fox said:

Cueto was recently added to the Miami bullpen after about a month at AAA, where he struggled greatly. I suspect it might be a bulk inning appearance for him after Okert opens. 

What I don't know is, why aren't they starting Luzardo here? I can't see any injury news about him anywhere. 

They could be limiting his innings right now?  As of today, he's already exceeded the number of innings he pitched last season (albeit by 9 innings) but they still have the rest of the season to consider.