The Rotation

[Sports Guy]

6 minutes ago, seak05 said:

Wells and Voth both had success getting big league hitters out last year, Wells was good two years ago as well. If they're all struggling, you go with the guys who have already done it. 

I want Grayson to succeed, and I want to see Grayson in the big leagues...but if he's having trouble with the shape and location of his breaking pitches, it's probably better for him long term to work on them in triple-A, where the Orioles can tell him to throw a lot of CB/Sliders regardless of result

No it’s not and you don’t even know if that’s the issue, if he’s working on different things, etc..

 

[RZNJ]

9 minutes ago, seak05 said:

Wells and Voth both had success getting big league hitters out last year, Wells was good two years ago as well. If they're all struggling, you go with the guys who have already done it. 

I want Grayson to succeed, and I want to see Grayson in the big leagues...but if he's having trouble with the shape and location of his breaking pitches, it's probably better for him long term to work on them in triple-A, where the Orioles can tell him to throw a lot of CB/Sliders regardless of result

I see your point.  I do think weight should be given to what Voth and Wells did as starters last year but it’s also time to take the training wheels off of Rodriguez.    Bradish learned the hard way.  There’s no sense in delaying the learning process Rodriguez needs to go through.   

[Can_of_corn]

17 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

I see your point.  I do think weight should be given to what Voth and Wells did as starters last year but it’s also time to take the training wheels off of Rodriguez.    Bradish learned the hard way.  There’s no sense in delaying the learning process Rodriguez needs to go through.   

The only logical reason to send him down is to game his service time.

He'll have to make an adjustment to ML hitters at some point and if you waste some of his innings in the minors you are just delaying that process.

[Pickles]

31 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

I see your point.  I do think weight should be given to what Voth and Wells did as starters last year but it’s also time to take the training wheels off of Rodriguez.    Bradish learned the hard way.  There’s no sense in delaying the learning process Rodriguez needs to go through.   

Remind me, where did Bradish go to make the adjustments that led to further development?  

[Aristotelian]

We've got two off days in the first two weeks so we don't even need a 5th starter until 4/13 at home vs OAK. Maybe give him a couple starts in Norfolk to keep tuning up and manage his innings? Would 4/13 be long enough to get the extra year?

[Sports Guy]

26 minutes ago, Pickles said:

Remind me, where did Bradish go to make the adjustments that led to further development?  

The majors 

[Sports Guy]

8 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

We've got two off days in the first two weeks so we don't even need a 5th starter until 4/13 at home vs OAK. Maybe give him a couple starts in Norfolk to keep tuning up and manage his innings? Would 4/13 be long enough to get the extra year?

Not likely

[Pickles]

1 minute ago, Sports Guy said:

The majors 

He was awful in the majors last year.  Went to the minors.  Made adjustments.  And came back a much better pitcher.

It's almost like the minors do indeed serve a purpose.
 

Now, I'm not going to get super dug in on whether Grayson should start the season in the bigs or not, because  I think you could make an argument both ways.  But what he has not done with his performance this spring is end that discussion.  If he pitched better this spring  nobody would even be talking about it.

[Sports Guy]

17 minutes ago, Pickles said:

He was awful in the majors last year.  Went to the minors.  Made adjustments.  And came back a much better pitcher.

It's almost like the minors do indeed serve a purpose.
 

Now, I'm not going to get super dug in on whether Grayson should start the season in the bigs or not, because  I think you could make an argument both ways.  But what he has not done with his performance this spring is end that discussion.  If he pitched better this spring  nobody would even be talking about it.

Huh?

Bradish threw a total of 27 MiL innings, some of which came before he was originally called up. He then got hurt and went it the minors for all of 12 innings while on a rehab assignment.

You actually think those 12 innings changed him?  
 

And yea, for people who can’t see the forest through the trees, look solely at stupid things like ST stats and generally think perfection should occur before a player comes up, he hasn’t ended the discussion.

For everyone else, the discussion never occurred.

Edited March 18, 2023 by Sports Guy

[seak05]

18 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Huh?

Bradish threw a total of 27 MiL innings, some of which came before he was originally called up. He then got hurt and went it the minors for all of 12 innings while on a rehab assignment.

You actually think those 12 innings changed him?  
 

And yea, for people who can’t see the forest through the trees, look solely at stupid things like ST stats and generally think perfection should occur before a player comes up, he hasn’t ended the discussion.

For everyone else, the discussion never occurred.

I believe he is referring to Bradish's time in Florida at the O's camp there as the minor leagues. Bradish spent time there before going on his rehab starts in the MiL, and came back with a slightly different arsenal (and new plan). 

Spring training stats are meaningful, how much meaning, and what they mean is up for discussion. They're basically all small sample size. Last year's performance should certainly be given much greater weight, of course that's true for Voth and Wells too. 

When a guy is pushing to make his major league debut, you would generally like to see them really making the case, even in spring training. I think Grayson has proven over the course of a larger sample size that he's ready, but he is looking to beat out other people who have had major league success, and he certainly hasn't erased any doubt this spring.  

[RZNJ]

1 hour ago, Pickles said:

Remind me, where did Bradish go to make the adjustments that led to further development?  

He missed 3 weeks with shoulder inflammation, had 3 rehab starts, and came back.    He also started 3 games in AAA and 10 games in the majors before that.  Give Rodriguez a real chance just like they did with Bradish.  He might need some changes or he might just figure it out by pitching to ML hitters.

[Sports Guy]

The idea that people still have a belief that you can only develop in the minors is unreal to me.

[Aristotelian]

4 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

The idea that people still have a belief that you can only develop in the minors is unreal to me.

Of course nobody said that.

[Sports Guy]

8 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

Of course nobody said that.

It’s clearly being implied. That’s obvious.

[Aristotelian]

6 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

It’s clearly being implied. That’s obvious.

One guy said "probably better" and the other said "could go both ways". Both are specific to Grayson rather than generalizations about development in general.