Mychal Givens 2023

[Matt Bennett]

Yeah, I've seen enough. Givens is washed. Phantom IL stint him.

[Sports Guy]

5 minutes ago, webbrick2010 said:

The Mets left him off their playoff roster, and yet Elias still signed him. Didn't make sense then and how he has pitched or not pitched was completely predictable. Chris Bassit will be pitching in the playoffs for Toronto, while Givens, Irwin and Frazier who cost the O's more $$$ will be watching.

You mean the Chris Bassitt who has a 5.21 FIP, a declining K rate and rising BB and HR rates?  That guy?

He won’t be pitching in the postseason with those stats, whether Toronto makes it or not.

[webbrick2010]

16 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

You mean the Chris Bassitt who has a 5.21 FIP, a declining K rate and rising BB and HR rates?  That guy?

He won’t be pitching in the postseason with those stats, whether Toronto makes it or not.

Yep, that's the guy, 1.15 WHIP, .207 BAA, 5-4 record

1.05 WHIP, 3.02 ERA in his last 7 starts

Glad you chimed in, we can talk in October when I am correct and you are wrong again.

[SemperFi]

I think it is dangerous to change a delivery for injury unless the damage is permanent, and he shouldn't be up unless he is healthy.  How many pitchers have damaged their career by pitching through leg injuries that then become arm injuries??

On another note I too was taken aback by his weight.  His drafted measurements were 6'2" and 185 pounds-now 6'00" and 250-sounds a little like my shrinking/gaining-but nowhere near that bad.  Also if he's listed at 250 he's likely heavier.

And for those unaware measurements are provided by the team so height and weight can be skechy.  Height is generally with shoes on, weight is subjectively low.  Almost every professional athlete I have met is shorter and wider than I thought (or listed).     

Edited June 1, 2023 by SemperFi

[sportsfan8703]

37 minutes ago, SemperFi said:

I think it is dangerous to change a delivery for injury unless the damage is permanent, and he shouldn't be up unless he is healthy.  How many pitchers have damaged their career by pitching through leg injuries that then become arm injuries??

On another note I too was taken aback by his weight.  His drafted measurements were 6'2" and 185 pounds-now 6'00" and 250-sounds a little like my shrinking/gaining-but nowhere near that bad.  Also if he's listed at 250 he's likely heavier.

And for those unaware measurements are provided by the team so height and weight can be skechy.  Height is generally with shoes on, weight is subjectively low.  Almost every professional athlete I have met is shorter and wider than I thought (or listed).     

No ST didn’t do Givens any favors with the weight. I think he needs to take one for the team and get more in season shape on the IL. 

[SemperFi]

14 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

No ST didn’t do Givens any favors with the weight. I think he needs to take one for the team and get more in season shape on the IL. 

It's really not healthy for someone let alone someone who relies on their legs for a living.  That's a very large weight gain in a short time; even if he just went from 230-250 with a knee injury!!

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, SemperFi said:

It's really not healthy for someone let alone someone who relies on their legs for a living.  That's a very large weight gain in a short time; even if he just went from 230-250 with a knee injury!!

Short time?  He was drafted 2009!

[Can_of_corn]

22 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

No ST didn’t do Givens any favors with the weight. I think he needs to take one for the team and get more in season shape on the IL. 

Being overweight is not an injury.

As far as I am aware we have no actual evidence that Givens qualifies for a stint on the IL.

Elias surely had reports of how he looked in the rehab appearances, they declared him healthy and put him on the roster. 

[SemperFi]

32 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Short time?  He was drafted 2009!

Not to give you a hard time but I think most medical professionals would regard gaining 70 or so pounds in a ~10 year period a very large and very concerning trend/condition especially for a professional athlete.

He may end up pitching better, it's the BP who knows.  I personally don't think it is a good treatment program to put on weight with a knee injury, it should be the direct opposite.

Edited June 1, 2023 by SemperFi

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, SemperFi said:

Not to give you a hard time but I think most medical professionals would regard gaining 70 or so pounds in a ~10 year period a very large and very concerning trend/condition.

Not to give you a hard time but 2023-2009=14 and 250-185=65. 

That's under 5 pounds a year.

It's not great but I don't think it qualifies as a very concerning condition.  Maybe moderately? 

I'm sure he gets regular checkups.

[SemperFi]

29 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Being overweight is not an injury.

As far as I am aware we have no actual evidence that Givens qualifies for a stint on the IL.

Elias surely had reports of how he looked in the rehab appearances, they declared him healthy and put him on the roster. 

Not an injury but in the NFL they would end up on the PUP list-baseball has no such designation.  But as we know the IL is what you make it out to be.

You made some good points about reporting progress from his assignment and BP work and they certainly know much more than me but IMO something just looks wrong.  

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, SemperFi said:

Not an injury but in the NFL they would end up on the PUP list-baseball has no such designation.  But as we know the IL is what you make it out to be.

You made some good points about reporting progress from his assignment and BP work and they certainly know much more than me but IMO something just looks wrong.  

Most likely he is either going through a non-competitive patch as he pitching himself back into shape or he's lost it.

Neither one of which is a legitimate reason to use the IL.

[SemperFi]

17 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Not to give you a hard time but 2023-2009=14 and 250-185=65. 

That's under 5 pounds a year.

It's not great but I don't think it qualifies as a very concerning condition.  Maybe moderately? 

I'm sure he gets regular checkups.

By the BMI scale 6 foot 250 is considered obese and it's not even close.  The major cause for medical concern is that if he keeps up that weight gain he will be 300 pounds by age 40 and likely dead by age 50 (there aren't many 350 pound 50 year olds).  And that is to say nothing about quality of life.

https://www.calculateconvert.com/calculators/health/bmi.php?pounds=250&foot=6&inch=0

He may very well pitch himself out of it, I'm wrong all the time especially when it comes to pitching. 

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, SemperFi said:

By the BMI scale 6 foot 250 is considered obese and it's not even close.  The major cause for medical concern is that if he keeps up that weight gain he will be 300 pounds by age 40 and likely dead by age 50 (there aren't many 350 pound 50 year olds).  And that is to say nothing about quality of life.

https://www.calculateconvert.com/calculators/health/bmi.php?pounds=250&foot=6&inch=0

He may very well pitch himself out of it, I'm wrong all the time especially when it comes to pitching. 

Like I said, moderately concerned.  36% of the adult population in the US hits the mark for obese.  The medical community is not "very concerned" about a third of the population.

Is it something he needs to be aware of?  Sure.  Is he being monitored?  Of course he is.

 

[sportsfan8703]

1 hour ago, Can_of_corn said:

Most likely he is either going through a non-competitive patch as he pitching himself back into shape or he's lost it.

Neither one of which is a legitimate reason to use the IL.

Yup. An IL stint is wishful thinking. Givens is just firmly in the B side of the bullpen and will have to pitch in low leverage. Whenever we get those spots.