Adam Frazier 2023

[Sports Guy]

1 minute ago, Sanity Check said:

When Frazier was signed, many wondered "what Mike Elias was thinking."  Maybe the answer is a bit clearer, and he's not as dumb as some people thought.  I understand the argument that some make that we didn't "need" Frazier, but we really can't argue with 1) his contributions to the team, and 2) how we get professional at bats from him time and time again.  I'm sure the newer guys can also learn from watching his approach.

One other potentially huge positive from Frazier's recent performance is that maybe he's more valuable in a trade......assuming he hasn't made himself untouchable at this point (which I say, tongue in cheek).  

I'm not sure he'll be traded at this point, but if he is traded and we get decent value back, then Elias will look even more like a genius.

 

He was/is a fine signing for a few million dollars and to play a part time/PH role.

8M to get 450+ at bats while holding down better players is and always will be a poor decision.

 

[geschinger]

2 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

8M to get 450+ at bats while holding down better players is and always will be a poor decision.

This is where I land.  His salary especially since it's a one-year deal doesn't bother me.  I am fine if the strategy is to overpay to shorten commitments when the payroll is so low.

The opportunity cost of not distributing those ABs to all the prospects we have banging on the door is going to lead to more mistakes in decisions on which players to keep and which ones to move down the line.

[Sanity Check]

21 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

He was/is a fine signing for a few million dollars and to play a part time/PH role.

8M to get 450+ at bats while holding down better players is and always will be a poor decision.

 

I'd like to refer to this as "while allowing a better player to continue his development", and it's a decision you don't agree with, and I get that, but without knowing exactly what someone like Adam Frazier brings to a clubhouse, and what Joey Ortiz would have contributed in equal time, can we really just assume that it's a "poor" decision?

I do think Elias wanted Westburg, Cowser and Ortiz to get more seasoning at AAA first, and he needed someone for the first half of the season, including opening day.  And he got himself a professional.  

That being said,.....I'm like you in that  I'd really like to see Joey get a fair chance and see what he can do.  And I'd like it to be soon, which I hope means they find a way to make room for him, which I think means the end for Mateo, not Frazier (unless traded).         

[Sports Guy]

4 minutes ago, Sanity Check said:

I'd like to refer to this as "while allowing a better player to continue his development", and it's a decision you don't agree with, and I get that, but without knowing exactly what someone like Adam Frazier brings to a clubhouse, and what Joey Ortiz would have contributed in equal time, can we really just assume that it's a "poor" decision?

I do think Elias wanted Westburg, Cowser and Ortiz to get more seasoning at AAA first, and he needed someone for the first half of the season, including opening day.  And he got himself a professional.  

That being said,.....I'm like you in that  I'd really like to see Joey get a fair chance and see what he can do.  And I'd like it to be soon, which I hope means they find a way to make room for him, which I think means the end for Mateo, not Frazier (unless traded).         

Yes, it was a poor decision. I don’t think Westburg or Ortiz are better players today because they have all these AAA at bats this season.

I have no issue with Frazier on the team and actually, he’s underperforming to what my expectations actually were because his defense is so subpar and I didn’t think it would drop off this much this year.

The issue is the role he has, his salary(salary is an issue because of what it means for his role and at bay number) and keeping better players down. 
 

The whole “what he brings to the clubhouse” is bs to me. We hear that every year for every vet player.

This is an excellent clubhouse and has been so since Hyde has been here. I’m not worried about vet influences to the point where I’m holding back clearly better talent for them.

Edited July 15, 2023 by Sports Guy

[Sports Guy]

The Os picked up Aaron Hicks for free. He is a good vet presence that has professional at bats, has some occasional power and will take walks.

It didn’t cost them $8M to do that.

[gtman55]

Frazier had been more than solid for the Orioles. If someone needs to go on this team it isn't Frazier, it's 100% Mateo.

Mateo seems flashy with the glove but makes more errors than Frazier. Yes Mateo has speed but he also can be a bonehead on the field. He never hits in the clutch, Frazier does.

I think Frazier was a good acquisition for a year. 8 million bucks in today's MLB --- that's nothing.

[IPlayGM]

1 hour ago, DirtyBird said:

Haha. You think he should only start 40% of the games, maximum?

Yup. And I think in that role he will be a positive contributor during his time on the field, and also off the field (because Westburg will be on it )

[sportsfan8703]

43 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

The Os picked up Aaron Hicks for free. He is a good vet presence that has professional at bats, has some occasional power and will take walks.

It didn’t cost them $8M to do that.

Unique situation. We’re going for a WS. You need vet bats like Frazier and Hicks. They’re both in a 3rd/4th OF/IF role for us and producing. I like it. 

[Sports Guy]

1 minute ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Unique situation. We’re going for a WS. You need vet bats like Frazier and Hicks. They’re both in a 3rd/4th OF/IF role for us and producing. I like it. 

You don’t NEED anything. And it’s not a unique situation. Guys like that are always available.

[Frobby]

4 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

You don’t NEED anything. And it’s not a unique situation. Guys like that are always available.

Hicks has (so far) exceeded what we should have expected.   For every guy a team picks up like Hicks, there are three other guys who teams pick up who fall on their face.  So yeah, guys like Hicks are “always available,” but picking up the right one isn’t that easy.  

One reason winning teams win is because they hit on a few guys like this.  In 2012 we found Miguel Gonzalez and Nate McLouth in the dumpster bin.  In 2014, Steve Pearce was dredged out of there.  Those guys were extremely important to those teams.   But they don’t always pay off.   

I was against the Frazier signing only because I thought we had good in-house options at 2B, not because Frazier isn’t a decent player.   And I don’t think $8 mm was some outrageous price or prevented anything else from happening.

Anyway, this is all old ground.  I hope Frazier plays well the rest of the time he’s in Baltimore, and I hope the younger guys do too.  It will be interesting to see how the market treats Frazier and Hicks this offseason.  
 

 

 

[tntoriole]

3 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

He was/is a fine signing for a few million dollars and to play a part time/PH role.

8M to get 450+ at bats while holding down better players is and always will be a poor decision.

 

3rd best record in AL and Adam has contributed in a major fashion whether the naysayers admit it or not. 
Could our record be better if whomever you think needs to be here instead of him was here?  All of them are here it seems to me.  
 I think Frazier in the second half is going to be outstanding and make the 8 mil look like the best money ever spent!! 

Edited July 15, 2023 by tntoriole

[Sports Guy]

18 minutes ago, tntoriole said:

3rd best record in AL and Adam has contributed in a major fashion whether the naysayers admit it or not. 
Could our record be better if whomever you think needs to be here instead of him was here?  All of them are here it seems to me.  
 I think Frazier in the second half is going to be outstanding and make the 8 mil look like the best money ever spent!! 

Talking about our record with regards to Frazier makes zero sense.

He has been worth half a win and that just doubled after last nights game, so it was even worse prior to the AS break. That’s pretty replaceable and yes, I think our record could be better but that’s not really the point.

I understand you have a poster of Frazier hanging on the ceiling of your bedroom but you don’t need to exaggerate who he is or what he has done.

Edited July 15, 2023 by Sports Guy

[RZNJ]

The Frazier signing had the potential to be terrible.   The 2022 version would have been a back hole in the lineup.   The 2023 version’s defense coupled with the 2022 offensive version would have been a disaster.   As it is, Frazier has enough redeeming qualities, mainly the unforseen power, that I don’t puke when I see his name in the lineup.  But, no matter how many clutch homers he hits, I think we’re probably better with Westburg there instead.

[Frobby]

4 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

The Frazier signing had the potential to be terrible.   The 2022 version would have been a back hole in the lineup.   The 2023 version’s defense coupled with the 2022 offensive version would have been a disaster.   As it is, Frazier has enough redeeming qualities, mainly the unforseen power, that I don’t puke when I see his name in the lineup.  But, no matter how many clutch homers he hits, I think we’re probably better with Westburg there instead.

I think that’s probably right.  We’ll see what Westburg does the rest of the way.  

[owknows]

Just now, Frobby said:

I think that’s probably right.  We’ll see what Westburg does the rest of the way.  

I'm here for my "Frazier is not a replacement level player" thrashing.

Although I expect the ebb and flow to turn the tables again before season's end...

Enjoying it while I can.