Kyle Gibson 2023

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, banks703 said:

If they can’t upgrade Gibson’s spot in the rotation, I’d be open to bringing him back on a one-year deal to eat innings. I just really hope that they make an effort to upgrade that rotation slot. 

Wells will be able to go next year and they will have a full year of Means.

Do they really need to upgrade? 

They are going to win ~100 games with these guys this year and a lot of times when you bring a guy in they disappoint.

Probably better to keep the prospects and the payroll flexibility.

[Rbiggs2525]

The market will be different this offseason. We are not a rebuilding team with a bright future anymore. We are a legit division contender with a pitchers park now. Not opposed to Gibson because he was the first guy to give this team a shot. 

[Billy F-Face3]

Gibson proved, AGAIN, today that you don't necessarily need to have a ton of strikeouts to be successful. Groundball pitching is a skill in itself if you have the defense behind you to support it.

We have grown used to seeing Gibson go deep into games throughout this season with his style of pitching. It might not always work, but he gets the job done more often than not, and has often been able to save the Bullpen.

[banks703]

8 minutes ago, Billy F-Face3 said:

Gibson proved, AGAIN, today that you don't necessarily need to have a ton of strikeouts to be successful. Groundball pitching is a skill in itself if you have the defense behind you to support it.

We have grown used to seeing Gibson go deep into games throughout this season with his style of pitching. It might not always work, but he gets the job done more often than not, and has often been able to save the Bullpen.

At some point early in the season I posted that if he could throw 175 innings of 5ish (or maybe my ask was sub 5h ERA) that he would be worth the $10 million. He’s definitely been worth it as far as the innings eating goes. I still think that they need to upgrade his rotation spot in the off-season. 

Edited September 24, 2023 by banks703

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, Billy F-Face3 said:

Gibson proved, AGAIN, today that you don't necessarily need to have a ton of strikeouts to be successful. Groundball pitching is a skill in itself if you have the defense behind you to support it.

We have grown used to seeing Gibson go deep into games throughout this season with his style of pitching. It might not always work, but he gets the job done more often than not, and has often been able to save the Bullpen.

You can't prove anything with a single data point.

In 1989 Jeff Ballard threw a shoutout without a walk or a strikeout. 

Would you say that he was a success as a ML pitcher?

For the record, Gibson has an ERA of 4.86 and is averaging 6 innings a start.

Adequate numbers but certainly nothing to point at as a measure of success. 

[banks703]

7 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Wells will be able to go next year and they will have a full year of Means.

Do they really need to upgrade? 

They are going to win ~100 games with these guys this year and a lot of times when you bring a guy in they disappoint.

Probably better to keep the prospects and the payroll flexibility.

All fair but I still think they would improve by upgrading his spot. He’s eaten the innings they paid him to eat. He’s won 15 games with a chance at 16. They could do worse than his 39th ranked 4.86 ERA but I think they could also do a lot better. Plus he’ll be 36. Can they count on him for another 175ish innings? That’s his calling card. 

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, banks703 said:

All fair but I still think they would improve by upgrading his spot. He’s eaten the innings they paid him to eat. He’s won 15 games with a chance at 16. They could do worse than his 39th ranked 4.86 ERA but I think they could also do a lot better. Plus he’ll be 36. Can they count on him for another 175ish innings? That’s his calling card. 

That whole bit was sarcasm.

[banks703]

Just now, Can_of_corn said:

That whole bit was sarcasm.

Oh. LOL 

[spiritof66]

38 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Wells will be able to go next year and they will have a full year of Means.

Do they really need to upgrade? 

They are going to win ~100 games with these guys this year and a lot of times when you bring a guy in they disappoint.

Probably better to keep the prospects and the payroll flexibility.

That will work out because it's unlikely that any of those guys will miss much time with injuries, and it certainly won't happen that any of them is ineffective. Right? 

[banks703]

32 minutes ago, spiritof66 said:

That will work out because it's unlikely that any of those guys will miss much time with injuries, and it certainly won't happen that any of them is ineffective. Right? 

He already posted that he was being facetious. 

[DirtyBird]

3 hours ago, banks703 said:

I don’t think that is necessarily true. There is plenty of talent both at the ML level and in prospects that they could use to go after someone and there are going to be TOR starters on the market like Snell and Kershaw (though not likely to leave LA). Plus other guys who fit the bill like Nola or Duffy would be upgrades to the current staff.

Bradish and GrayRod have had nice seasons and I am super excited by their development but it’s only one year (and in GrayRod’s case it’s half a year) of top half of a rotation production. Let’s see them repeat these performances before we declare anything like it’d take Jackson Holliday to acquire someone better.

A bonafide Ace doesn’t mean that it has to be a Strider or an Alcantara. Guys like Cease, Burns or E-Rod would be major upgrades from Gibson, though I hope they don’t kick the tires on E-Rod. I look at John Means as a guy who could potentially anchor their staff next year. I want them shooting for the stars.

 

Didn’t the White Sox want Holliday in a deal for Cease?

[OriolesMagic83]

5 hours ago, banks703 said:

I am not taking anything away from what they’ve done this year and I certainly believe that they are going to continue to perform at these levels but I don’t want the O’s going into the off-season thinking that they don’t need pitching. They do. Everyone needs pitching.

With the four guys who are penciled into the staff next year it doesn’t really make sense (with the decreased payroll) to prioritize a number 4 (at best) starter.

I love the staff but I’m not silly to think that they don’t need to upgrade it and if they’re going to do so, they should be looking for a legit dude. No offense to Kyle Gibson. 

If the O's fall short of winning the World Series, there is zero reason the O's can't upgrade the team.  It was very painful for me as a fan when the O's were so close to winning in 2014 and did nothing to upgrade the team.  The profit sheet for the O's has to be flush with cash with all the increased attendance money and now playoff money.  No reason the O's can't upgrade the bullpen and the rotation. 

[OriolesMagic83]

5 hours ago, Rbiggs2525 said:

The market will be different this offseason. We are not a rebuilding team with a bright future anymore. We are a legit division contender with a pitchers park now. Not opposed to Gibson because he was the first guy to give this team a shot. 

The only pitchers who had a chance to give the O's a shot had to be ok w/ a 1 year deal, which really limits the sort of pitcher you can get.  I'm thinking the O's are much more likely to trade for the starting pitcher they need than sign a free agent pitcher to a big contract.  I can't say I disagree with Elias' and O's historical aversion to signing free agent pitchers to big contracts.

[NCRaven]

5 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

In 1989 Jeff Ballard threw a shoutout without a walk or a strikeout. 

Would you say that he was a success as a ML pitcher?

Ballard struck me out on the first day of fantasy camp in ‘96. If that’s not success I don’t know what is.

[banks703]

10 hours ago, DirtyBird said:

Didn’t the White Sox want Holliday in a deal for Cease?

That may have been reported but I don’t believe that it was ever confirmed that the O’s seriously pursued Cease (or that they asked for Holliday in return).

The White Sox are a dumpster fire so it wouldn’t surprise me though. Cease is their best asset. It would do more for their organization to trade him for multiple high level prospects (and possibly get major league level talent back) than to ask for one guy back in a trade for Cease. That’s why I think the O’s match up with them for a potential off-season move. They didn’t have to move Cease in-season so they could ask for the world but now that they have new leadership in Chris Getz, I expect them to make more sound moves.