Gunnar Henderson 2023

[Aristotelian]

11 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

That’s why I’m making Gunnar and Holliday turn down 9 figures. If they do, so be it but it should be put on the table.

End of the day, it’s far more risk for the Os than the player to do it but I think it’s worth it.

And you also go after Adley although that’s trickier imo. 

Agreed. Great upside for the team and incentive for the player. Acuna is already regretting his, apparently. The Jones deal was huge for us during our window. Will be tremendously disappointing if they don't make at least an effort after the year we have had. 

[Can_of_corn]

7 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

Agreed. Great upside for the team and incentive for the player. Acuna is already regretting his, apparently. The Jones deal was huge for us during our window. Will be tremendously disappointing if they don't make at least an effort after the year we have had. 

Haven't heard that, got a link?

Normally MLB players are pretty quiet about contract stuff.

[OriolesMagic83]

1 hour ago, Aristotelian said:

Probably right but why did Acuna and Franco do their deals? I hope we at least offer in that range.

I would like to see the O's try to at least sign one of their stars to an extension.  It's hard to see that, with an owner who complained about the rising costs of salaries when the O's have the 29th highest payroll in the majors and also signalled that the O's couldn't afford to extend anyone. 

[Sports Guy]

39 minutes ago, baltfan said:

The problem with all of this is if you are the team and do this, do you put it out there you were turned away and risk alienating the player?

Yes. I think you have to let your fans know that you have tried and that your initial attempts were turned away but that you hope to keep revisiting it until a deal is done.

 

[baltfan]

1 minute ago, Sports Guy said:

Yes. I think you have to let your fans know that you have tried and that your initial attempts were turned away but that you hope to keep revisiting it until a deal is done.

 

Actually, I am kinda surprised that the question isn't being asked of the players.  I have heard it asked of the team.  Maybe after the year is over we will hear more about interest in extensions.

[Aristotelian]

25 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Haven't heard that, got a link?

Normally MLB players are pretty quiet about contract stuff.

Nothing firm, mostly outsiders speculating. I just meant in the more general sense that he is outperforming his contract and it is appearing likely he could have made a lot more by holding out. He did change agents, for what that's worth. 

[waroriole]

2 hours ago, Aristotelian said:

I thought Franco signed after his first half-year.

Ahh you’re right. Still, I think the 7/110 SG proposed is reasonable. It buys out 2 FA years at 30M per year. 

[joelala]

3 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

Why is it unrealistic to think he would essentially get the exact same contract as another one of the top young players in the sport who is basically the same age? (Gunnar is about 1 year younger but it’s similar)

 Because Carroll signed that contract before putting up the numbers he’s had this year. You don’t think the AAV would be higher now were they negotiating today? 
 

Gunnar has the leverage of a ROY season and gaudy statcast numbers that fully support his performance and hint that we could be looking at a perennial all star. 

[Sports Guy]

8 minutes ago, joelala said:

 Because Carroll signed that contract before putting up the numbers he’s had this year. You don’t think the AAV would be higher now were they negotiating today? 
 

Gunnar has the leverage of a ROY season and gaudy statcast numbers that fully support his performance and hint that we could be looking at a perennial all star. 

Where would the AAV be higher? You don’t usually see guys making more than 50 or so million in their pre free agency years.  Basically the costs are fixed.(and this is basically best case scenario unless they are super 2 and then the best case can be higher)

The FA years are where the discussion comes in.

The best and most proven players in the sport are getting 30-45M a year.

Carroll signed for 28M in his FA years. Could he be looking at 30-35 now? Maybe. So, maybe it would be 8/120? He sure as hell isn’t looking at 50M a year though.

Edited September 6, 2023 by Sports Guy

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

Gunnar's rookie season through team game 138:

Cal Ripken's rookie season through team game 138:

[Tony-OH]

On 9/2/2023 at 6:02 PM, banks703 said:

Just like you can’t teach someone to 7 feet tall for basketball, you can’t teach someone to overcome a lack of arm strength.

Go ahead and subscribe to this idea that you’re holding onto. You don’t have to take my word for it but I’ll extend the same ban-bet to you that I did the other fella on here. I’ll leave the hangout if Holliday ends up at SS. If he ends up at 2B, you have to leave. Deal?

There’s a big difference from reading what people write about a prospect and actually seeing it for your own eyes. What experience do you have to determine that Holliday’s arm is better than below average (because it is in fact below average for a ML SS)? Have you seen him play the 30+ times that I have or the 70ish plays that the writer of the fangraphs article watched?

So, what is your information gathering process that you have used to arrive at the conclusion that what I’m posting, what Tony has posted, what fangraphs wrote, what other prospect outlets have posted (remember, going into the draft last year there were scouts who still suggested that he would be drafted as an OF)? Holliday himself has stated that he grew up a 2B and is most comfortable there and that’s what he considers himself. So, how can you conclude that that information is ridiculous? 

What's up with you and ban-bets? Why so dramatic over a difference of opinion?

[Frobby]

On 9/2/2023 at 6:02 PM, banks703 said:

Just like you can’t teach someone to 7 feet tall for basketball, you can’t teach someone to overcome a lack of arm strength.

* * *
Holliday himself has stated that he grew up a 2B and is most comfortable there and that’s what he considers himself. So, how can you conclude that that information is ridiculous? 

First of all, let me say that I value your opinions on Holliday’s defense, since you’ve seen him and our other SS prospects a lot.  

That said, I certainly think it’s possible for a 19-year old to build arm strength, it’s just a matter of degree.   It was pretty clear after a year that Mountcastle didn’t have the arm for SS, and that nothing he could do would change that.  But I don’t have the sense that Holliday’s situation is that dire.   His arm is rated as decent by scouts, and I’d think he can improve it.  I’m not saying he’ll ever be our SS, but that’s more a function of who else we have at that spot than a comment on his defensive limitations.   

Finally, can you point me to where Holliday has said he grew up a 2B and is most comfortable there?   I’ve never heard that before.

 

 

[banks703]

10 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

What's up with you and ban-bets? Why so dramatic over a difference of opinion?

They were a dumb response to something that I shouldn't have let annoy me as much as it did. Definitely my bad. 

[joelala]

4 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

Where would the AAV be higher? You don’t usually see guys making more than 50 or so million in their pre free agency years.  Basically the costs are fixed.(and this is basically best case scenario unless they are super 2 and then the best case can be higher)

The FA years are where the discussion comes in.

The best and most proven players in the sport are getting 30-45M a year.

Carroll signed for 28M in his FA years. Could he be looking at 30-35 now? Maybe. So, maybe it would be 8/120? He sure as hell isn’t looking at 50M a year though.

Right now they are but that will increase with the market by the time he reaches those two years we’ve bought out. I see what you’re saying and it makes sense but I don’t think 8/120 gets it done. I’ve resolved myself to the fact that he’ll only be here until we trade him a year and half before he hits FA though. 

[SilverRocket]

9 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

Haven't heard that, got a link?

Not directly, but it seems he and the rest of his family are now avoiding his old agent.