Bench Mountcastle, start O’Hearn

[Bemorewins]

3 hours ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Why just 5?  Including this season we have 5 years of club control for Adley, Gunnar 6, Cowser 6+. Grayson 6. Kjerstad, Mayo, Holliday, etc…, all at 6+. 
 

Extensions will happen at some point. The Wall and winning will start to lure some FA SP. 

I hope that you are right on the extensions front. I’m not very confident in that though. 

[foxfield]

Just now, Moose Milligan said:

 

 

 

 

Well the conversation has changed and it does seem quick. But it’s not so much that Mountcastle has changed. It’s the Orioles. 
 

Five years ago he was an up and coming 1st round pick we couldn’t wait to insert into a terrible team. His flaws were visible but his potential was significantly better than much of what we had. 

Then the rosters were full of placeholders.  Now, with one of the best teams in baseball we find Mountcastle to be too one dimensional…not good enough defensively.  

We are ready to move on from Hays, Santander and Mullins in similar ways  

We don’t have room for last years Gold Glove winning 3b. 
 

The talent in this organization is an embarrassment of riches. We have had three #1 prospects in the entire game over the last 14 months. 
 

It is not being unfair to Mountcastle to judge him from an altered perspective. The Orioles were at the bottom…now they are not. 
 

 

[waroriole]

22 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Assuming he doesn't get demoted he's going to be arb 1 coming off a down year.  He's probably looking at O'Hearn money.

Folks here are oddly down on Mountcastle.  You would think, going by comments here, that he was one of the worst players in the league.

I’m not saying he’s the worst player in the league, but what do you call a guy who has no defensive value and his offensive numbers have gotten worse every year he’s been in the league. Culminating with a current .264 OBP. 

[Moose Milligan]

18 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Now look at O'Hearn's career numbers.  Look at how much rope he got in KC.  Look at how he got a contract with the O's for 1.4M after putting up those numbers.

Folks are being ridiculous.

Yeah, I think you reaching for O'Hearn's career numbers and the rope that he got in KC and somehow parlaying that into a 1.4 million contract with the Orioles is kind of deflecting the absurd take that Mountcastle isn't one of the worst players in the league.

But that's ok, you can make emotional arguments not based on facts.

[Moose Milligan]

11 minutes ago, foxfield said:

Well the conversation has changed and it does seem quick. But it’s not so much that Mountcastle has changed. It’s the Orioles. 
 

Five years ago he was an up and coming 1st round pick we couldn’t wait to insert into a terrible team. His flaws were visible but his potential was significantly better than much of what we had. 

Then the rosters were full of placeholders.  Now, with one of the best teams in baseball we find Mountcastle to be too one dimensional…not good enough defensively.  

We are ready to move on from Hays, Santander and Mullins in similar ways  

We don’t have room for last years Gold Glove winning 3b. 
 

The talent in this organization is an embarrassment of riches. We have had three #1 prospects in the entire game over the last 14 months. 
 

It is not being unfair to Mountcastle to judge him from an altered perspective. The Orioles were at the bottom…now they are not. 
 

 

 

No, Mountcastle has changed.  As I stated in the OP, he's gotten progressively worse in practically all categories since he arrived on the scene.

You're correct that the Orioles have changed, there's a lot of talent now that makes him expendable.  If this were a last place team there'd still be room for him, most likely.  But with the team performing the way it is and the system producing the talent that it has, he is expendable.

But it's not as if Mountcastle is the same guy he was two, three years ago.  

4 minutes ago, waroriole said:

I’m not saying he’s the worst player in the league, but what do you call a guy who has no defensive value and his offensive numbers have gotten worse every year he’s been in the league. Culminating with a current .264 OBP. 

He's not the worst player in the league but he's certainly cemented himself in the bottom tier.  Bottom third?  25%?  I feel that's pretty safe.

[foxfield]

4 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

 

No, Mountcastle has changed.  As I stated in the OP, he's gotten progressively worse in practically all categories since he arrived on the scene.

You're correct that the Orioles have changed, there's a lot of talent now that makes him expendable.  If this were a last place team there'd still be room for him, most likely.  But with the team performing the way it is and the system producing the talent that it has, he is expendable.

But it's not as if Mountcastle is the same guy he was two, three years ago.  

He's not the worst player in the league but he's certainly cemented himself in the bottom tier.  Bottom third?  25%?  I feel that's pretty safe.

Agreed, I think Mounty is worse because he is pushing to keep a job, and also...letting the wall live in his head.

[ArtVanDelay]

33 minutes ago, ChosenOne21 said:

If he qualified, he'd be 127th out of 151 in OPS. He's also a poor defensive first baseman. So far this year, somehow, he's been worth 0.2 WAR. I think it's fair to say he's one of the worst players in the league. Replacement level first basemen aren't exactly exciting players

I’ve really started to question rWAR the last couple years.  How does a bad hitting, bad fielding 1B have positive WAR?  His baserunning can’t be THAT good. 
 

Fangraphs has him at a more reasonable -0.2 WAR but I actually thought it would be lower than that.  Reference has Adam Frazier at an absurd 1.0 WAR, 0.0 for Fangraphs. 

[Can_of_corn]

8 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Yeah, I think you reaching for O'Hearn's career numbers and the rope that he got in KC and somehow parlaying that into a 1.4 million contract with the Orioles is kind of deflecting the absurd take that Mountcastle isn't one of the worst players in the league.

But that's ok, you can make emotional arguments not based on facts.

You want facts go with WAR.  

O'Hearn is a valid point to bring up.  

It is not as if I'm declaring Mountcastle is a lock to be on the team next year.  But the idea that he's currently a non tender candidate or might have no trade value is not based in reality.

No doubt his stock is down, but it isn't zero.

[Frobby]

46 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Assuming he doesn't get demoted he's going to be arb 1 coming off a down year.  He's probably looking at O'Hearn money.

Folks here are oddly down on Mountcastle.  You would think, going by comments here, that he was one of the worst players in the league.

It doesn’t matter if he’s demoted or not.  He had 2.105 days of service time coming into this year and already has earned 90+ days of service time, so he’ll be Arb 1 next year.   

He’s really been awful in the first half, but I wouldn’t foreclose the possibility that he gets back to the majors at some point this year and finishes strong.  I just don’t think we automatically recall him when his rehab time is up.  Right now he has a .597 OPS in 49 PA at Norfolk, on a team where everyone is hitting the snot out of the ball.  For me, he stays down until he’s putting up the kind of numbers you expect when a major leaguer goes to AAA.  He’s done a bit better over the last 6 games, so we’ll see.  
 

[Fiver6565]

The one thing I will say about RMC is that imagining him on one of his patented 3-week hot power steaks, batting in the middle of this lineup as currently constricted, is pretty drool-worthy. 
 

Of course O’Hearn could be essentially the same thing, but we’ve seen RMC when he’s on. 

[Moose Milligan]

17 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

You want facts go with WAR.  

O'Hearn is a valid point to bring up.  

It is not as if I'm declaring Mountcastle is a lock to be on the team next year.  But the idea that he's currently a non tender candidate or might have no trade value is not based in reality.

No doubt his stock is down, but it isn't zero.

Well, maybe in your head O’Hearn is a valid point to bring up. But I don’t think anyone here believes that.  
 
I also never said Mountcastle’s trade value is zero. 

[Can_of_corn]

10 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Well, maybe in your head O’Hearn is a valid point to bring up. But I don’t think anyone here believes that.  
 
I also never said Mountcastle’s trade value is zero. 

Wasn't talking about you.

We had someone else in this thread questioning if he had any trade value.

[Moose Milligan]

6 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Wasn't talking about you.

We had someone else in this thread questioning if he had any trade value.

I can't imagine whatever his trade value is much at all.  Everyone can see the declining stats, everyone can see the vertigo issue this year, everyone can see the poor OPS on his rehab stint.

Do my favorite exercise:  What would YOU give up from our current system if Ryan Mountcastle was on another team and they wanted to make a trade?

Edited July 6, 2023 by Moose Milligan

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

I can't imagine whatever his trade value is much at all.  Everyone can see the declining stats, everyone can see the vertigo issue this year, everyone can see the poor OPS on his rehab stint.

Do my favorite exercise:  What would YOU give up from our current system if Ryan Mountcastle was on another team and they wanted to make a trade?

Which is fine, but it isn't ZERO which is the point I was making.

You are arguing some other random point against the voices in your head.

 

 

[Moose Milligan]

Just now, Can_of_corn said:

Which is fine, but it isn't ZERO which is the point I was making.

You are arguing some other random point against the voices in your head.

 

 

I'm arguing that I don't want to see him in an Orioles uniform for the rest of the season.  All of the voices in my head are in concert with that.