Elias & Prospect Promotion

[Mooreisbetter27]

2 minutes ago, Pickles said:

Am I missing something?

The calculation for "getting another year" hasn't changed since 4/16.  So that has no impact on decisions being made in June and July.

There has been a lot of chatter about Super 2 and when it could potentially be.  Seems like it's definitely in June but I guess we won't know what the date was until it's already passed.  

[Redgrape]

I think basically the issue comes down to the fact that O'Hearn and Hicks are playing great, Frazier has been servicable, and Mateo has value as a fantastic defender and SB threat. I understand the frustration but remember all these guys are human beings and the organization doesn't want to be ruthless with their players. As long as O'Hearn and Hicks are hitting we likely won't see any changes.

[Pickles]

2 minutes ago, glenn__davis said:

Yeah, I honestly don't think Elias plays service games.  I know others believe he does.

I think he truly it just reticent to bring too many rookies up at once for performance purposes.  I don't agree with that mindset - if it were me, Frazier wouldn't have been signed and Westburg or Oritz would have started at 2B from day 1 - but I think that's the reason.

I agree.

If it was just about the extra year, then Frazier never would have been signed and one of those guys would have been up on 4/16.

[deward]

I've concluded that Elias has a very dogmatic approach to team-building. Whatever his plan is, he's sticking with that plan no matter what, no matter how loud anyone's AAA numbers are screaming for an adjustment in approach. I think as long as the current roster keeps winning games, he's going to stick with it. It seems oddly short-sighted to me, especially after investing so much effort into building up the system, but he stopped taking my calls, so...

[Pickles]

3 minutes ago, Mooreisbetter27 said:

There has been a lot of chatter about Super 2 and when it could potentially be.  Seems like it's definitely in June but I guess we won't know what the date was until it's already passed.  

That's a separate argument: Super 2 vs. the extra year.

Super 2 at least has a leg to stand on, but I really don't think it's much of the equation at all.

[Mooreisbetter27]

1 minute ago, Pickles said:

That's a separate argument: Super 2 vs. the extra year.

Super 2 at least has a leg to stand on, but I really don't think it's much of the equation at all.

I tend to agree.  But it's hard to rationalize why Westburg isn't up here for some and that's one of the arguments being made.  

[NCRaven]

If Westburg was up instead of Frazier, would we have a better record than Tampa Bay?  I don't think so.  I just don't think that Elias thinks that with dropping Frazier, the juice is worth the squeeze.

[casadeozo]

1 minute ago, NCRaven said:

If Westburg was up instead of Frazier, would we have a better record than Tampa Bay?  I don't think so.  I just don't think that Elias thinks that with dropping Frazier, the juice is worth the squeeze.

I think it’s more than that. The current team as it stands makes the playoffs. That said are we beating the Rangers or Rays in a series? 
 

making the playoffs would be awesome but I think everyone hopes for more than that.

[glenn__davis]

4 minutes ago, NCRaven said:

If Westburg was up instead of Frazier, would we have a better record than Tampa Bay?  I don't think so.  I just don't think that Elias thinks that with dropping Frazier, the juice is worth the squeeze.

Not convinced if you made a "rest of the AL All Star team" that they'd have a better record than TB thus far.  Doesn't mean the O's shouldn't be trying to get better in every way that they can.

Frazier was never going to be dropped, not with an 8 million dollar price tag, which is why so many were against the acquisition in the first place.  That said, I think he's done exactly what Elias wanted.  He's raised the floor at 2B while lowering the ceiling.  The question is when do you think it's worth trying to push that ceiling up a bit.

[deward]

2 minutes ago, Redgrape said:

I think basically the issue comes down to the fact that O'Hearn and Hicks are playing great, Frazier has been servicable, and Mateo has value as a fantastic defender and SB threat. I understand the frustration but remember all these guys are human beings and the organization doesn't want to be ruthless with their players. As long as O'Hearn and Hicks are hitting we likely won't see any changes.

I think Elias is perfectly capable of being ruthless if he deems it necessary.

 

17 minutes ago, NCRaven said:

If Westburg was up instead of Frazier, would we have a better record than Tampa Bay?  I don't think so.  I just don't think that Elias thinks that with dropping Frazier, the juice is worth the squeeze.

If Westburg was up instead of Frazier, would the O's have a chance to be better positioned to beat Tampa in October? Or in 2024?

[Mr-splash]

10 minutes ago, deward said:

I think Elias is perfectly capable of being ruthless if he deems it necessary.

 

If Westburg was up instead of Frazier, would the O's have a chance to be better positioned to beat Tampa in October? Or in 2024?

Frazier is the ultimate clutch guy. He's a lifetime .305 hitter or thereabouts in high leverage situations. He'd be a monster in the playoffs. 

[wildcard]

1 hour ago, deward said:

I think as long as the current roster keeps winning games, 

But the O's are not winning series like they were for almost  the first two months of the season.

[deward]

17 minutes ago, wildcard said:

But the O's are not winning series like they were for almost  the first two months of the season.

You'd have to tell that to Elias. I'm just speculating on the logic he may be using for his moves (or lack thereof). Cowser and Westburg would be up playing every day if it were up to me.

[Frobby]

I’m really glad this topic was raised, because there hadn’t been enough discussion of it up to now. 

[casadeozo]

51 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I’m really glad this topic was raised, because there hadn’t been enough discussion of it up to now. 

In fairness the topic was “what is the rationale behind not promoting him” not should he be promoted.