Hicks and Mullins back this week…what happens with the roster?

[Bemorewins]

1 hour ago, Sports Guy said:

You have Kjerstad you can call up if Cowser doesn’t turn things around.

You have plenty of existing MiL options.  Maybe you put Westburg out in the OF and have Ortiz up and play Urias more regularly?

Plenty  of options that don’t have to be Hicks.

The team could certainly go that route with any of those players for sure. But none of those options/players has any post season experience like Hicks does if that is what the team choses to value. And all of those options come with some/similar risk as Cowser does in that they have never done it at this level before.

It seems as thought you prefer any of these options over Hicks and you seem to prefer playing young players over vets. I don't fault you for your opinion, but it does not seem to be congruent with the org's.

[tntoriole]

2 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

Yep, .3 fWAR just screams winning plays!  Lol. So delusional.

Fortunately fWAR doesn’t play any games except fantasy ones. 

[eddie83]

1 hour ago, maybenxtyr said:

It's more than just 2023 though. If that's how you are looking at it, then I guess there's no reason for a conversation.

 

Are you good with Hicks and Mateo on the roster  opening day next year? Or is next year somehow different and they can have Cowser and Ortiz? 

 

Have you been paying attention to Westburg? Not all rookies are the same, and as high as I am on Westburg, some would argue that Ortiz has the potential to be just as good as him. 

What does next year have to do with now?

[Bemorewins]

12 minutes ago, IPlayGM said:

I guess I would say so what? There are enough guys there that can play if he continues to struggle. I don’t see that he is hurting us overall right now, we have been great post all star break.  To me the risk of that is mitigated by all the other guys who could start over him.  Especially if Mateo is the one to go.

I appreciate your honesty. But that is not likely an approach that the org can or has the luxury to take. The answer to that question is, so what can happen is, he can end up costing us dearly in our biggest game(s) of the season.

Yes we have been great. But it is in no way due to Cowser. As a matter of fact, I can count on probably one hand positive contributions that he has made since being on the team. The first game against NY (in which he gave us a needed spark and drove in a run with a bloop hit) and the game in Philly where he drove in the winning run with a hit down the LF line that Schwarber missed on the dive. Other than that very little positive contributions thus far.

I'm not one of those people/posters/fans who believes in having high expectations young players/prospects just coming to the show. I believe that most take time to figure thungs out. So, I'm not one to be harsh/extreme/ready to rush to judgment. 

Cowser will probably be fine in time. But it's kind of clear that time hasn't come yet.

Oh I wish the O's would jettison Mateo. But the choice is not likely to be between Cowser and Mateo. But probably Cowser and Hicks. I know some don't like Hicks but the risk (as well as the potential upside) is likely to be less with Aaron Hicks.

[Sports Guy]

18 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

The team could certainly go that route with any of those players for sure. But none of those options/players has any post season experience like Hicks does if that is what the team choses to value. And all of those options come with some/similar risk as Cowser does in that they have never done it at this level before.

It seems as thought you prefer any of these options over Hicks and you seem to prefer playing young players over vets. I don't fault you for your opinion, but it does not seem to be congruent with the org's.

When you aren’t good and shouldn’t see the field, your postseason experience is pretty meaningless.

[Sports Guy]

14 minutes ago, tntoriole said:

Fortunately fWAR doesn’t play any games except fantasy ones. 

Not, it only values the worth of a player for the season and that value says he’s barely worth more than a replacement player.

[Bemorewins]

3 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

When you aren’t good and shouldn’t see the field, your postseason experience is pretty meaningless.

With Hays, Mullins, Santander in the OF and Mountcastle and O'Hearn manning 1B and DH. Either Hicks or Cowser will be relegated to backup/bench duties. Neither player deserves to start over those other 5 right now (given what they each has contributed/produced through the season).

[tntoriole]

5 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Not, it only values the worth of a player for the season and that value says he’s barely worth more than a replacement player.

Yeah that’s why Elias and Hyde play him cause they don’t know near as much about statistics and value  .. they must be  “delusional “ too lol.  
And the other players like him this year have somehow put us on pace for the best season in 40 years ..yeah,  they are hardly any good at all… lolol

[maybenxtyr]

8 minutes ago, eddie83 said:

What does next year have to do with now?

 

9 minutes ago, eddie83 said:

What does next year have to do with now?

Ok...I'm amazed that that's the question you got out of what I posted.

 

The questions are, why keep Hicks over Cowser if we already know Hicks isn't very good? I'd rather see Cowser take some lumps this year so he can be an answer, or maybe not moving forward.

 

The same thing applies to Mateo and Ortiz.

 

This is the same conversation people have had with you in regards to Frazier. Now, Frazier has been better than Odor was, but the year changed but playing guys that are not that good over young players seems to be an operating standard by this team. Once again, Elias tanked for a long time to get the system where it's at now. And, he did an excellent job, but I would rather see what I perceive as the best 26 guys playing.

[wildcard]

2 hours ago, LookitsPuck said:

Hicks had a rough 4 days prior to getting hurt, but for the rest of the month of July he slashed .271/.321/.417 - .738 OPS. That's respectable.

This is an excellent point.  Basically Hicks hit pretty well of the O's up until July 20th.

He had a 250/372/486/858 in June.  And in July he had a 271/321/417/738 up until that point in July. He went 0-9 in his last 4 games.   9 at bats is about as SSS has it gets.  So I don't think the argument that Hicks did not hit for the O's after the first two weeks is a good one.

I can understand SG saying the Hicks was not good for the Yankees.  I understand he was hurt a lot.  Did he try to play hurt.  i don't know.  

I can understand the argument that Cowser is the future and Hicks is not.   I don't think Elias is trading away Cowser based on 2023.   i expect Cowser is with the O's next season no matter what happens the rest of this year.

The main thing for the O's is to win as many games as they can the rest of the regular season and in the playoffs. And if Elias decides that Hicks gives him the best chance to do that I will not fault Elias for that. Hicks did play pretty well for him prior to those last 9 at bats.  

Edited August 11, 2023 by wildcard

[CaptainRedbeard]

Hicks is a 105 wRC+ hitter vs LHP on his career and 131 this year. He’s at 96 vs. RHP on his career and 85 this year. 

I don’t want to see him starting against RHP regardless of whether Cowser is here or not. 

However, he’s better than McKenna and a decent option against LHP. I don’t think that’s worth carrying in favor of Cowser, but it’s defensible for the Orioles to prefer having him on the roster for LHP, over keeping Cowser so they can can bench one of Hays/Santander/Mountcastle/O’Hearn to start Cowser against RHP. 

[Aristotelian]

13 minutes ago, maybenxtyr said:

 

Ok...I'm amazed that that's the question you got out of what I posted.

 

The questions are, why keep Hicks over Cowser if we already know Hicks isn't very good? I'd rather see Cowser take some lumps this year so he can be an answer, or maybe not moving forward.

 

The same thing applies to Mateo and Ortiz.

 

I just don't get why folks are so negative on Hicks. He has hit .785 for us and .695 for the year. He's got a good OBP and 20+ HR power. It is pretty obvious to me that it is possible for Cowser to perform worse than that because that's exactly what he has done. 

I would like to see Ortiz get more of a chance, but he doesn't really have a role. Mateo can back up any position and steal bases. Ortiz is not a fit for that role and should not be taking AB's from any of Gunnar, Westburg, and Urias, who are all performing well, and Frazier is LH. I would absolutely prefer Ortiz to Mateo as an every day player but that's not what Mateo is right now. You would have to prefer Ortiz to Urias. 

[eddie83]

17 minutes ago, maybenxtyr said:

 

Ok...I'm amazed that that's the question you got out of what I posted.

 

The questions are, why keep Hicks over Cowser if we already know Hicks isn't very good? I'd rather see Cowser take some lumps this year so he can be an answer, or maybe not moving forward.

 

The same thing applies to Mateo and Ortiz.

 

This is the same conversation people have had with you in regards to Frazier. Now, Frazier has been better than Odor was, but the year changed but playing guys that are not that good over young players seems to be an operating standard by this team. Once again, Elias tanked for a long time to get the system where it's at now. And, he did an excellent job, but I would rather see what I perceive as the best 26 guys playing.

Hicks has played well with the Orioles. Cowser has not. How do you think the clubhouse would react if a respected member of the team who has performed gets released so a prospect can play more ? 
 

I am floored at the concern over the future when the present matters. I doubt Hicks, Mateo and Frazier will be here next year. They are here now. Mateo starts only vs LHP. With the way Urias glove is I expect Urias and Westburg to start any playoff game vs a LHP. Ortiz is playing everyday at AAA. He isn’t being wasted. You are going to release a player or players just so you can create at bats for a prospect when the team is in 1st place?  This isn’t about the future it’s about the present. 
 

The Orioles are not going to carry 13 pitchers in the ALDS/WC round. They will also add another hitter on Sept 1. 

[Can_of_corn]

10 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

I just don't get why folks are so negative on Hicks. He has hit .785 for us and .695 for the year. He's got a good OBP and 20+ HR power. It is pretty obvious to me that it is possible for Cowser to perform worse than that because that's exactly what he has done. 

I would like to see Ortiz get more of a chance, but he doesn't really have a role. Mateo can back up any position and steal bases. Ortiz is not a fit for that role and should not be taking AB's from any of Gunnar, Westburg, and Urias, who are all performing well, and Frazier is LH. I would absolutely prefer Ortiz to Mateo as an every day player but that's not what Mateo is right now. You would have to prefer Ortiz to Urias. 

Over his 11 year career he's hit more than 15 HR in a season once.

[wildcard]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

Over his 11 year career he's hit more than 15 HR in a season once.

Can't stay healthy enough to hit 20 but he does have 20 homer power if he played a whole season.