2024 Opening Day Roster

[mrbig1]

2 hours ago, foxfield said:

I would make a play for Hader.  And at least two other BP arms.  Agree with Moose.  I aint worried about the positional talent.

 

We need a lockdown closer. I mean a guy who can close with no drama.

[Sports Guy]

1 hour ago, Pickles said:

Means' body of work far exceeds one start.

You really don't have "plenty of time."  You basically have this offseason.  If you fail to sign him this offseason, and he goes into the season and pitches as he always has, then he's going to test FA.

If you want any kind of "discount" it has to be this offseason.  

I don’t want a discount. I want to know that he can still pitch through a full season at a high enough level to justify a contract.

I would rather pay more money but have more information than essentially go into it blind…especially for 3 years.

Edited September 25, 2023 by Sports Guy

[Pickles]

1 minute ago, Sports Guy said:

I don’t want a discount. I want to know that he can still pitch through a full season at a high enough level to justify a contract.

I would rather pay more money but have more information than essentially go into it blind…especially for 3 years.

Is he not pitching as we speak or something?

[EERinthe804]

2 hours ago, Aristotelian said:

I would be surprised if we got more than 1 of your 4 asks. An above average SP and elite RP would be a dream offseason for me, and I expect less than that. 

I would love for them to make a run at Manoah.  Apparantly he is disgruntled in Toronto - they sent him to AAA a month or two ago and he failed to report.  His value has never been lower and his talent is sky high.  If anyone can fix him it's the Os coaches.

[Sports Guy]

Just now, Pickles said:

Is he not pitching as we speak or something?

He is..and he’s not pitching like anyone I would want to extend.

No Ks, barely missing bats…this is not something I’m interested in for 3 years.

And even if he shows more over his remaining starts this year, I still would want to see a larger sample size next year before extending him.

I also think you are wrong that you can’t sign him to an extension during the season although our owner is worthless and probably wouldn’t but Means would imo.

[Pickles]

1 minute ago, Sports Guy said:

He is..and he’s not pitching like anyone I would want to extend.

No Ks, barely missing bats…this is not something I’m interested in for 3 years.

And even if he shows more over his remaining starts this year, I still would want to see a larger sample size next year before extending him.

I also think you are wrong that you can’t sign him to an extension during the season although our owner is worthless and probably wouldn’t but Means would imo.

Your obsession with Ks in miniscule sample sizes has been commented on elsewhere.  A guy goes 7.1 and gives up 1 h and 1 er and "only" 4 ks is not a bad start.  It's a very, very good start.

He's pitching exactly like he's always pitched: Quite well.  He's already been worth half a win in 17+ innings.

There's nothing to suggest that Means is any more risky than any other FA pitcher.  Probably less so with TJ out of the way.

The last best time to sign him will be this offseason, owner or not.

[RZNJ]

13 minutes ago, Pickles said:

If Means were to have a 2024 that was similar in value to his 2022 then he would be looking at minimum 4/80 as a FA imo.

Sure, you can't guarantee that Means will be as good as he was, but all evidence so far suggests he's going to be, so the contract has a risk aspect to it (they all do of course) but that's why you can get a "discount."

Now, no, you're not going to be able to pay his as  LOOGY, thus removing all risk from the O's side of the equation, but there's a middle ground to be had, or at least explored.

He should be in the ~3 million range for salary next year.  What if you went to him and offered him 4/48?

It seems like most players in his position bet on themselves these days so I would guess you’d have to come a lot closer to 4/80 than 4/48.

[Pickles]

2 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

It seems like most players in his position bet on themselves these days so I would guess you’d have to come a lot closer to 4/80 than 4/48.

Then that's fine, and you walk away.  But it sure makes a lot of sense to explore it.

[Frobby]

26 minutes ago, spleen1015 said:

You have to get better. Everyone is going to in order to catch up to you. So, you better get better or you will get passed.

Or, we get better simply because we have a lot of young players who are still improving, and several potentially good players rising up from the minors.  

[Hank Scorpio]

27 minutes ago, spleen1015 said:

You have to get better. Everyone is going to in order to catch up to you. So, you better get better or you will get passed.

They'll organically get better with improvement from some young guys, I think. (See Henderson 2023.) 

I would guess they'll trade for a controllable left handed starting pitcher from someone, but maybe not. They have a glut of highly rated middle infielders laying around. It would make sense to package some of them. 

Mackenzie Gore?

[Aristotelian]

16 minutes ago, EERinthe804 said:

I would love for them to make a run at Manoah.  Apparantly he is disgruntled in Toronto - they sent him to AAA a month or two ago and he failed to report.  His value has never been lower and his talent is sky high.  If anyone can fix him it's the Os coaches.

We've done a great job of building around high character guys. The players and management talk about it consistently. I would want to keep a guy like Manoah as far away as possible from our guys. We can find guys as talented as him and we have to capacity to pay them if needed.

[spleen1015]

5 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Or, we get better simply because we have a lot of young players who are still improving, and several potentially good players rising up from the minors.  

Do you think any pitching falls into this category? Any TOR pitching?

[Pickles]

3 minutes ago, spleen1015 said:

Do you think any pitching falls into this category? Any TOR pitching?

Grayson Rodriguez sure seems like a candidate to take a major leap next year.

Edited September 25, 2023 by Pickles

[Hank Scorpio]

Just now, Pickles said:

Grayson Rodriguez sure seems like a candidate to take a major leap next year.

This... and let us not sleep on Kyle Bradish either. The two of them could provide quite a 1-2 punch.

Bradish is 25, Rodriguez is 23. 

[Pickles]

2 minutes ago, Hank Scorpio said:

This... and let us not sleep on Kyle Bradish either. The two of them could provide quite a 1-2 punch.

Bradish is 25, Rodriguez is 23. 

For sure.  I just wouldn't classify Bradish as a breakout candidate, as his breakout already happened this season.