Which of these pitchers belong in the Hall of Fame?

[mweb]

Does Smoltz still hold the record for most wins in postseason history?

He has an ERA around 2.50 in the playoffs as well.

I don't know, he's 12-12 in the postseason with a 2.65 ERA.

[mweb]

Clemens is 14-9 in the playoffs, Glavine 13-11, so no, he's not the all time leader. I'm not sure Roger is either, just was a guy that I thought might have more wins, so I checked.

[sangell2007]

The OH, like the BBWAA, refuses to vote for anyone unanimously, I see . 29 votes and only 28 for Clemens, Glavine, Johnson, and Maddux.

[Sports Guy]

Clemens is 14-9 in the playoffs, Glavine 13-11, so no, he's not the all time leader. I'm not sure Roger is either, just was a guy that I thought might have more wins, so I checked.

Could have sworn Smoltz used to hold the record when he had like 9 wins...Maybe that changed when he went to the pen???

[TyCobb]

I knew Brown had a solid peak, but he had too many bad season(for a HOFer) for me to vote for him.

Roger, Pedro, Maddux, Johnson, Smoltz and Glavine are all 1st ballot HOF IMO

Schilling misses it for me, and Moose isn't really close in my book. Moose was just an above average pitcher.

[TyCobb]

Could have sworn Smoltz used to hold the record when he had like 9 wins...Maybe that changed when he went to the pen???

I am pretty sure I read somewhere recently that he had the most wins in Divisonal series or something.

[Sports Guy]

I knew Brown had a solid peak, but he had too many bad season(for a HOFer) for me to vote for him.

Roger, Pedro, Maddux, Johnson, Smoltz and Glavine are all 1st ballot HOF IMO

Schilling misses it for me, and Moose isn't really close in my book. Moose was just an above average pitcher.

Moose has a higher career WARP3 than Smoltz does and he isn't that far behind Glavine.

[TyCobb]

Moose has a higher career WARP3 than Smoltz does and he isn't that far behind Glavine.

Don't know how WARP3 is calculated, but I am looking at ERA+ and Smoltz never had a bad season. Dominated as a Closer when the team needed him.

[Sports Guy]

Don't know how WARP3 is calculated, but I am looking at ERA+ and Smoltz never had a bad season. Dominated as a Closer when the team needed him.

Ok, Smoltz's ERA+ is 127...Mussina's is 123....Mussina is in the AL.

[TyCobb]

Ok, Smoltz's ERA+ is 127...Mussina's is 123....Mussina was in the AL.

ummm ERA+ is adjusted for league ERA and pitching park so it takes into account that Moose was in the AL.

[Sports Guy]

ummm ERA+ is adjusted for league ERA and pitching park so it takes into account that Moose was in the AL.

But it doesn't think about what Smoltz would have done had his career been in the AL.

If Smoltz followed the norm and his ERA was around .50 run more in the AL, his ERA+ would have been less and therefore, it would have been worse than Moose's.

[TyCobb]

But it doesn't think about what Smoltz would have done had his career been in the AL.

If Smoltz followed the norm and his ERA was around .50 run more in the AL, his ERA+ would have been less and therefore, it would have been worse than Moose's.

Im confused? ERA+ takes into account the league Average ERA, so Moose 50 runs more is taking away.

[mweb]

I knew Brown had a solid peak, but he had too many bad season(for a HOFer) for me to vote for him.

Roger, Pedro, Maddux, Johnson, Smoltz and Glavine are all 1st ballot HOF IMO

Schilling misses it for me, and Moose isn't really close in my book. Moose was just an above average pitcher.

How many bad seasons do you think Brown had? He only had 1 season where he pitched more than 75 innings and had an ERA+ under 100(91). He had two shorter seasons towards the end of his career that weren't good as well. That's it. Glavine's had more below average seasons. Brown's peak is much better than solid as well.

How do you come to the conclusion that Mussina was just an above average pitcher?

[Sports Guy]

Im confused? ERA+ takes into account the league Average ERA, so Moose 50 runs more is taking away.

In other words, Smoltz would have seen, in all likelihood, a rise in his ERA if he had been in the AL. ERA+ doesn't take that into account.

It looks at the league average and compares that to your ERA.

The AL usually has a .15-.30 difference in ERA(obviously higher) than the NL.

However, pitchers coming from the NL to the AL usually see an increase of .50.

So, Smoltz's ERA+, had he been in the AL his whole career, would have likely been worse than Mussina's.

As it is, they are almost the same anyway and for you to say Smoltz is a lock and Mussina was just an above average pitcher is not backed up by any stats.

[Moose Milligan]

SG, thanks for pointing me in the direction of the Kevin Brown posts in the Sheffield thread. Mweb makes a compelling case, indeed. You can definitely make the argument that he belongs.

While after reading that I'd be swayed to vote for him, I don't think the voters will. Lack of hardware and post season brilliance will hurt him (despite his dominance in division series he's been lackluster in every other level of postseason play).

I still remember watching the game he pitched for us in 1995, trying to snare that comebacker with his throwing hand and breaking it...

I don't really remember his exit from Baltimore, but his baseballreference.com page says he was granted free agency. What kind of terms did he leave on? Did we ever make an attempt to resign him?

Our postseason runs in 1996 and 1997 could have been very different if we had him around...of course I say this after pointing out he didn't always fare well in postseason play...but whatever.