2023 #7 Prospect Enrique Bradfield Jr. - CF

[Can_of_corn]

4 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

He had over 140 hits twice and wasn't very good.  Malike said he'd be happy if Bradfield hit 130 singles because he'd turn half into doubles.  So that's not 130 singles either. It's 65 doubles and 65 singles.  But, of course 130 hits isn't necessarily good and Usain Bolt couldn't turn half into doubles.

And I said that he'll need a better batting average than Hamilton showed.

I do agree with Malike that if you put a plus glove on Hamilton's profile you have a pretty useful player for the first 6-7 years of their career.

[DanS]

Perhaps we've become spoiled by our recent top draft picks.  We no longer get a top 5 pick, and I like Bradfield as a number 17 pick.  I watched a number of his games at Vandy, and he truly has elite speed and defense.  He is very lean and lacks power, but he can potentially become a special player who gets on base, leads the league in steals and covers a lot of ground in center field.  Sixteen players were chosen before him, so we should expect some holes in his game, but I like the ceiling.

[RZNJ]

4 minutes ago, Malike said:

If Hamilton were a good defender those few 2 win seasons would likely have been 4 win seasons or more. I'd take that. Bradfield is an elite defender, Hamilton never was. Nice comp.

 

Let me introduce you to a word.  "Research".   Hamilton had negative offensive WAR in those seasons.   All of his WAR came from defense.   Statistically, according to DRS and OAA he was elite.

 

 

[RZNJ]

6 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

And I said that he'll need a better batting average than Hamilton showed.

I do agree with Malike that if you put a plus glove on Hamilton's profile you have a pretty useful player for the first 6-7 years of their career.

If only we could find a place which would tell us if Billy Hamilton was a good defender.   Nope.  Let's just go with Malike!

[RZNJ]

Malike?  Can_of_Corn?     .............Bueller?

Edited March 15 by RZNJ

[Malike]

Apparently, he lost it somehow. HOF defender, I agree.

[Spy Fox]

Starting at his age 23 season, Hamilton had a five year starting run as the Reds' CF. In those five years he produced: 

• .244/.297/.332/.629
• Average season: 4 HR, 32 RBI, 71 R, 53 SB
• 11.2 fWAR, 8.7 rWAR

Would you sign up for that as an output for EBJ's Oriole years? 

[Malike]

31 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Let me introduce you to a word.  "Research".   Hamilton had negative offensive WAR in those seasons.   All of his WAR came from defense.   Statistically, according to DRS and OAA he was elite.

 

 

You'll also need to decide which is the superior defensive metric DRS or UZR. Bbref uses DRS, Fangraphs uses UZR. I know you went to Fangraphs for your defensive argument but Bbref has him as a 2 win player on defense in exactly 1 year with 9.3 overall for his career. But you cited DRS.

Edited March 15 by Malike

[RZNJ]

5 minutes ago, Spy Fox said:

Starting at his age 23 season, Hamilton had a five year starting run as the Reds' CF. In those five years he produced: 

• .244/.297/.332/.629
• Average season: 4 HR, 32 RBI, 71 R, 53 SB
• 11.2 fWAR, 8.7 rWAR

Would you sign up for that as an output for EBJ's Oriole years? 

No.  I know worst case scenario could be worse but that's pretty close.

[RZNJ]

3 minutes ago, Malike said:

You'll also need to decide which is the superior defensive metric DRS or UZR. Bbref uses DRS, Fangraphs uses UZR. I know you went to Fangraphs for your defensive argument but Bbref has him as a 2 win player on defense in exactly 1 year with 9.3 overall for his career. But you cited DRS.

I used DRS and OAA.  He was double digits in each, 3 times.   Those are the two most often used defensive metrics we use, no?   You used his WAR.   Can you find a WAR calculation where all of his WAR didn't come from his defense?

[jamalshw]

10 minutes ago, Spy Fox said:

Starting at his age 23 season, Hamilton had a five year starting run as the Reds' CF. In those five years he produced: 

• .244/.297/.332/.629
• Average season: 4 HR, 32 RBI, 71 R, 53 SB
• 11.2 fWAR, 8.7 rWAR

Would you sign up for that as an output for EBJ's Oriole years? 

If that is what he becomes, I would hope we'd have better options to start...butt with the speed and defense, it's probably still a Major Leaguer while cheap as a backup/PR. 

[Malike]

1 minute ago, RZNJ said:

I used DRS and OAA.  He was double digits in each, 3 times.   Those are the two most often used defensive metrics we use, no?   You used his WAR.   Can you find a WAR calculation where all of his WAR didn't come from his defense?

He's had 4 seasons total where neither his oWAR nor dWAR were below 0.0 so I suppose he did it 4 times. I just don't like the comp, I think the only similarity is they are both 80+ speed guys. I don't think they profile the same at the plate, as Hamilton always had plate discipline and contact issues and the scouting reports on Bradfield report that he manages the strike zone well and has excellent contact skills.

[ShoelesJoe]

2 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

Right.

Instead of teaming him up with the trainers the team has hired to do this sort of thing they should team him up with another player who should have the freedom to have his off-season to himself and not be saddled with additional responsibilities he's not getting paid for.

JFC dude, take a pill. All I’m saying is that if Bradfield wants to put on some muscle he should try doing whatever Ced’s been doing. I said “pair him with Mullins” not put Mullins in charge of him for three months. 

[Malike]

4 minutes ago, ShoelesJoe said:

JFC dude, take a pill. All I’m saying is that if Bradfield wants to put on some muscle he should try doing whatever Ced’s been doing. I said “pair him with Mullins” not put Mullins in charge of him for three months. 

It would be hard to pair them in season unless they demote Mullins to A+/AA. 

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, Malike said:

It would be hard to pair them in season unless they demote Mullins to A+/AA. 

I think the idea is to make one or both of them relocate during the offseason and force them to work together without additional pay.

I know I'd appreciate it if my job wanted me to train my replacement off the clock.