Means discusses his timetable to return

[MCO'sFan]

15 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I don't know if the Means camp can force a binding agreement that a minor league stint won't impact his free agency.

Without that guarantee I don't see him agreeing to be sent down.

He likely wouldn't except the assignment but he should. I think pride and the union would be the biggest factors. I don't think the union would want that precedent. Anyway, I don't see him losing any money if it does coast him enough service time to affect his status. He is still arbitration eligible and he likely won't get a ML contract unless he can prove he is healthy and effective. I don't think the O's would ask him to accept the assignment. If this is how he performs the rest of the rehab, they can/will just continue with the IL stint and start over again. Likely send him to Sarasota for a few weeks and then see how he progresses. 

[sportsfan8703]

12 hours ago, interloper said:

This is reminding me of how Chris Tillman faded into oblivion. 

I'm eager to hear if there's a health issue.

I was thinking the same thing. Chris Tillman. 

Also, with Means is it’s not just the injury he’s having to overcome, it’s the spider tack ban as well. 

He’s making 3.35 million this year. What team would even claim him if he’s DFA’d?  

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, MCO'sFan said:

He likely wouldn't except the assignment but he should. I think pride and the union would be the biggest factors. I don't think the union would want that precedent. Anyway, I don't see him losing any money if it does coast him enough service time to affect his status. He is still arbitration eligible and he likely won't get a ML contract unless he can prove he is healthy and effective. I don't think the O's would ask him to accept the assignment. If this is how he performs the rest of the rehab, they can/will just continue with the IL stint and start over again. Likely send him to Sarasota for a few weeks and then see how he progresses. 

That's an opinion.

I wouldn't trust the O's not to delay my free agency if I handed them the chance. 

Just like Kim didn't trust them.  He's earned the right to refuse.

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

I was thinking the same thing. Chris Tillman. 

Also, with Means is it’s not just the injury he’s having to overcome, it’s the spider tack ban as well. 

He’s making 3.35 million this year. What team would even claim him if he’s DFA’d?  

A team would wait and pick him up for the minimum.

[MCO'sFan]

Just now, Can_of_corn said:

That's an opinion.

I wouldn't trust the O's not to delay my free agency if I handed them the chance. 

Just like Kim didn't trust them.  He's earned the right to refuse. 

This seems like a strange post for you ...  unless I am mis-reading your post.

 

You are 100% correct that is my opinion. I never said that he didn't have the right to refuse. I also never said that he should trust the O's. I specificly mentioned that it might cost his FA status. I stated why he likely wouldn't accept it. I also laid out why I thought he should and how it would benefit him. 

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, MCO'sFan said:

This seems like a strange post for you ...  unless I am mis-reading your post.

 

You are 100% correct that is my opinion. I never said that he didn't have the right to refuse. I also never said that he should trust the O's. I specificly mentioned that it might cost his FA status. I stated why he likely wouldn't accept it. I also laid out why I thought he should and how it would benefit him. 

I don't think it's a good idea to trust a team to not screw you over.  I don't think it's a matter of pride, it's a matter of not being a sucker.  He gets paid this year either way and he has no guarantee of getting a contract for next season either way.

[MCO'sFan]

2 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I don't think it's a good idea to trust a team to not screw you over.  I don't think it's a matter of pride, it's a matter of not being a sucker.  He gets paid this year either way and he has no guarantee of getting a contract for next season either way.

Okay, thanks for clarifying. You get that I never said anything about them guaranteeing him they wouldn't affect his FA status? I agree with you that would be a factor. I didn't mention it because I didn't suggest that he trust anyone. I specifically said that he should do it even if it effected his status. You may disagree with doing anything to affect his status and that is certainly a defensible position. But my point was, if he can't get out of the first inning of a MiLB game, he should worry about his FA status. He won't get a ML contract at this point let alone a multi-year contract (IMHO). 

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, MCO'sFan said:

Okay, thanks for clarifying. You get that I never said anything about them guaranteeing him they wouldn't affect his FA status? I agree with you that would be a factor. I didn't mention it because I didn't suggest that he trust anyone. I specifically said that he should do it even if it effected his status. You may disagree with doing anything to affect his status and that is certainly a defensible position. But my point was, if he can't get out of the first inning of a MiLB game, he should worry about his FA status. He won't get a ML contract at this point let alone a multi-year contract (IMHO). 

Nothing stopping the O's from Non-tendering him in the offseason so no difference in job security.

I get where you are coming from, to me it seems like additional risk without additional reward.

[RZNJ]

22 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

A team would wait and pick him up for the minimum.

Sure, but would they add him to their 26 man roster and let him stink/rehab in the majors?   I doubt it.    

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, RZNJ said:

Sure, but would they add him to their 26 man roster and let him stink/rehab in the majors?   I doubt it.    

I think there are some teams that are rebuilding that could give him a chance.

What's he got to lose?  He gets paid either way.  Once he gets sent down he loses a lot of the protections he's earned.

[wildcard]

Rangers will extend rehab for RHP Jonathan Hernandez

Dallas News

https://www.dallasnews.com › Sports › Rangers

Jul 1, 2022 — Up to three 10-day extensions are permitted for shoulder and elbow surgery patients, but must be approved by MLB and the Players Association.

---------

This is what I think happens to Means if he is not ready for the majors after 2 more starts.

Edited April 18 by wildcard

[RZNJ]

4 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I think there are some teams that are rebuilding that could give him a chance.

What's he got to lose?  He gets paid either way.  Once he gets sent down he loses a lot of the protections he's earned.

The Orioles are the one team that has an investment in him, both monetary and emotional.   They are the one team incentivized to have him pitch in the majors this year.

What ML team, rebuilding or not, wants to take a pitcher who’s given up 14 hits, including 5 home runs, in 7 AAA innings, stick him in their bullpen, so he can keep accumulating FA service time?

What’s their incentive?   That he’s going to magically turn into the 2021 John Means and they can flip him at the deadline?    While it’s possible that he regains form, I don’t think there’s a ML team willing to take the lumps on a longshot.

[Can_of_corn]

4 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

The Orioles are the one team that has an investment in him, both monetary and emotional.   They are the one team incentivized to have him pitch in the majors this year.

What ML team, rebuilding or not, wants to take a pitcher who’s given up 14 hits, including 5 home runs, in 7 AAA innings, stick him in their bullpen, so he can keep accumulating FA service time?

What’s their incentive?   That he’s going to magically turn into the 2021 John Means and they can flip him at the deadline?    While it’s possible that he regains form, I don’t think there’s a ML team willing to take the lumps on a longshot.

Emotional?  I don't think Elias is the emotional type.

The incentive for another team is to get a guy that can eat innings.

A 100 loss team needs cheap guys that can eat innings.

We've been the 100 loss team often enough to know.

[RZNJ]

5 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Emotional?  I don't think Elias is the emotional type.

The incentive for another team is to get a guy that can eat innings.

A 100 loss team needs cheap guys that can eat innings.

We've been the 100 loss team often enough to know.

1. I think there’s a history between the player and team that’s means something to both sides.

2. A pitcher who had TJ surgery, came back, got shut down again, needed all winter off, was a month behind everyone else, and has now thrown a total of 7.1 innings in 4 rehab starts doesn’t scream INNINGS EATER to me but maybe some ML team does think so.

3. I’m curious.  Can the Orioles even circumvent the MLB rules for service time by guaranteeing his minor league time won’t affect his FA status?

[Ohfan67]

35 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Rangers will extend rehab for RHP Jonathan Hernandez

Dallas News

https://www.dallasnews.com › Sports › Rangers

Jul 1, 2022 — Up to three 10-day extensions are permitted for shoulder and elbow surgery patients, but must be approved by MLB and the Players Association.

---------

This is what I think happens to Means if he is not ready for the majors after 2 more starts.

Good point. Plus they could put him on roster, let him throw a bullpen where he complains about tightness or similar, then put him back in IL. If he’s not really healthy then he will end up on IL one way or another.