Defense is a factor as to why our top hitting prospects are in AAA

[Frobby]

3 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Sorry.  Couldn’t tell on that attempted DP in game #1.   Mateo has more experience in his career, granted.  Holliday has more recent experience.  Were there any plays Holliday failed to make in ST?   If they are waiting for Holliday to have Mateo’s arm and range, it could be a long wait.

Well, the one thing Hyde said during ST is that Holliday really hadn’t had any opportunities to start 4-6-3 DPs at game speed this spring.   He said that more than once, and not in the context of justifying why Holliday didn’t make the team, just remarks made in passing following games.  And sure enough, Holliday’s error yesterday came while initiating a DP.

I’m about done discussing this subject.  Literally every time Holliday has a good game at the plate, someone is going to revisit the decision to send him down, opine that he should be called up ASAP, etc.   I heard it with Rutschman, I heard it with Cowser, I heard it with Westburg, etc. etc.   It’s like Groundhog Day.  It gets really boring.   

[spleen1015]

1. Holliday's error with the flip to 2nd he just flipped it high. He wasn't hurrying because there wasn't a need to. It was a tailor made DP that he screwed up the flip to 2nd.

2. Kerstad's error, he should have caught it for sure but the throw was a lollipop throw from Holliday that was at or below the knee when it got to Kjerstad.

3. One of Mayo's errors was a backhand deep in the hole, long throw. It was a tough play.

4. Mayo's other throw was really bad.

On one of Mayo's errors, I can't remember which, Kjerstad didn't even move to try and catch/stop the ball. He just stood at 1B and the throw was up the line.

That being said, we've see Gold Glovers make the same errors. I'm not basing anything on one bad inning.

[RZNJ]

Just now, Frobby said:

Well, the one thing Hyde said during ST is that Holliday really hadn’t had any opportunities to start 4-6-3 DPs at game speed this spring.   He said that more than once, and not in the context of justifying why Holliday didn’t make the team, just remarks made in passing following games.  And sure enough, Holliday’s error yesterday came while initiating a DP.

I’m about done discussing this subject.  Literally every time Holliday has a good game at the plate, someone is going to revisit the decision to send him down, opine that he should be called up ASAP, etc.   I heard it with Rutschman, I heard it with Cowser, I heard it with Westburg, etc. etc.   It’s like Groundhog Day.  It gets really boring.   

Give me a break on the DP last night.  First of all, it’s the pivot that is the most important part of the 2B turning the DP.   Not sure if he had trouble getting the ball out of his glove on that one last night or not.   I could keep harping on Mateo turning a pretty easy DP into an overthrow into the dirt but I know ONE play is no big deal.   Holliday checked all of the boxes in ST.  Yes, he’ll get better with even more experience but he could, IMO, play a ML quality 2B right now.

[Just Regular]

The wind plus McDermott perhaps added some challenge for lightly used fielders - today with Bruce Zimmermann they should get much steadier work.

Its still their job to be sharp on every one of McDermott's 85 pitches, and that was a nice high number for him in Game 1.

[Frobby]

9 minutes ago, Sanity Check said:

Oh, it was very convenient to fit the narrative.  I don't recall them throwing the ball around like that in the Spring Training games I saw.  I doubt that Elias and Co. expected these guys would just suck at their respective positions like they did a couple of times yesterday.

BUT, I didn't see the games, so I can't form an opinion on how easy any of the throws were, whether they were hurried, or the run, etc.  The only guy at a fairly new position, in my opinion, was Kjerstad.  

If anyone did see those plays, and they were clearly easy throws with no excuse for not making them, then I'll agree the guys need work.  Sometimes, guys make errors trying to make plays that they maybe shouldn't have tried to make, but that's what most athletes do.

@Just Regulargave a pretty detailed report:

While I was in Florida, I saw Mayo make a very errant throw that was somehow stabbed on a dive by Nevin, who remarkably kept his toe on the bag (or at least, the ump said so).  For me, Mayo still has the burden I of proof at 3B despite reports of improvement this spring, and yesterday was a step backwards.   As to Kjerstad, @Tony-OHhas reported that he’s looked pretty bad in his limited reps at 1B, and yesterday was no exception.  He needs a lot more work there if we want 1B to be an option for him.   I think Holliday will be a very good 2B in time, he just needs some reps there.   

[RZNJ]

3 minutes ago, spleen1015 said:

1. Holliday's error with the flip to 2nd he just flipped it high. He wasn't hurrying because there wasn't a need to. It was a tailor made DP that he screwed up the flip to 2nd.

2. Kerstad's error, he should have caught it for sure but the throw was a lollipop throw from Holliday that was at or below the knee when it got to Kjerstad.

3. One of Mayo's errors was a backhand deep in the hole, long throw. It was a tough play.

4. Mayo's other throw was really bad.

On one of Mayo's errors, I can't remember which, Kjerstad didn't even move to try and catch/stop the ball. He just stood at 1B and the throw was up the line.

That being said, we've see Gold Glovers make the same errors. I'm not basing anything on one bad inning.

Holliday, a bit like Westburg, throws it as hard as he needs to.  I would like to have seen a firmer throw.  No excuse for Kjerstad though.   Holliday made good feeds to the SS during ST.  Maybe the ball got caught in his webbing.  Not sure.  Only one game but Mayo’s throws concerned me the most.  Although his throws were good during ST there were a couple that were close to pulling the 1B off the bag.   Last night, especially the second one, were just wild.   Kjerstad, has a looooong way to go at 1B.

[Tony-OH]

2 minutes ago, Frobby said:

@Just Regulargave a pretty detailed report:

While I was in Florida, I saw Mayo make a very errant throw that was somehow stabbed on a dive by Nevin, who remarkably kept his toe on the bag (or at least, the ump said so).  For me, Mayo still has the burden I of proof at 3B despite reports of improvement this spring, and yesterday was a step backwards.   As to Kjerstad, @Tony-OHhas reported that he’s looked pretty bad in his limited reps at 1B, and yesterday was no exception.  He needs a lot more work there if we want 1B to be an option for him.   I think Holliday will be a very good 2B in time, he just needs some reps there.   

Man, Mayo was BADDDD last night on his throwing. He had been improving a lot last year and I don't think he made an error all spring, but good Lord he made all of us who were saying he's ready to play major league 3B look bad yesterday.

I'm hoping it was a blip on the radar but bares watching. Sometimes guys just have a bad game but yeah, it was not a good night for him last night.

As for Holliday, his flip error was bad and even the throw he made to Kjerstad that Kjerstad dropped was an easy toss that he under threw and Kjerstad had to catch it at his knees. It was certainly catchable, but Kjerstad got caught between catching the ball plan up or down and ended up just dropping it. Definitely Kjerstad's error, but it was not a good throw from Holliday. 

[spleen1015]

I wanna give the decision makers the benefit of the doubt, but I do find it curious that Mayo hasn't been moved off 3B. With his arm, I wonder why he hasn't been moved to OF, RF especially. Maybe it's because there's not much 3B depth in the org and there is in the OF.

Dudes that big don't play 3B.

[sportsfan8703]

1 hour ago, Greg Pappas said:

• Holliday needs more time to get acclimated to 2B.
• Mayo needs more work at 3B.
• Kjerstad needs a lot more time at 1B, though he may be a DH/RF anyway.  Time will tell.
• Norby is trying to get acclimated in LF & RF.  He's able to fill in at 2B but is below average there.  
• I can't recall what defensive shortcomings Stowers has to work on, so I can't speak to that.

This is not an attempt to disregard the team control factor, at all.  It's just that defense is a factor that should not be dismissed in consideration of when the team feels these young men are ready to come up.

Agree?

None of them are on the 40 man roster except for Stowers.  We have one of the best 26 and 40 man rosters in MLB.

Poor 40 man roster management contributed to how we lost “prospects” like Mike Yaz and Christian Walker. Elias would’ve had those dude in AAA as death. 

Edit - I’m not sure if this is why we DFA’d Mike Yaz. 

Edited March 30 by sportsfan8703

[dystopia]

13 minutes ago, spleen1015 said:

I wanna give the decision makers the benefit of the doubt, but I do find it curious that Mayo hasn't been moved off 3B. With his arm, I wonder why he hasn't been moved to OF, RF especially. Maybe it's because there's not much 3B depth in the org and there is in the OF.

Dudes that big don't play 3B.

Or 1B. 

[RZNJ]

28 minutes ago, spleen1015 said:

I wanna give the decision makers the benefit of the doubt, but I do find it curious that Mayo hasn't been moved off 3B. With his arm, I wonder why he hasn't been moved to OF, RF especially. Maybe it's because there's not much 3B depth in the org and there is in the OF.

Dudes that big don't play 3B.

Someone should tell Austin Riley, or how about O’Neill Cruz, and Elly DeLa Cruz?

[Gurgi]

19 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Someone should tell Austin Riley, or how about O’Neill Cruz, and Elly DeLa Cruz?

What about Devers?  Thats the kind of play we could be getting with Mayo at third.  If that is the case I say move him to first or RF.   Eddie Murray himself was a failed third base prospect at one time.  

[jabba72]

1 hour ago, Greg Pappas said:

• Holliday needs more time to get acclimated to 2B.
• Mayo needs more work at 3B.
• Kjerstad needs a lot more time at 1B, though he may be a DH/RF anyway.  Time will tell.
• Norby is trying to get acclimated in LF & RF.  He's able to fill in at 2B but is below average there.  
• I can't recall what defensive shortcomings Stowers has to work on, so I can't speak to that.

This is not an attempt to disregard the team control factor, at all.  It's just that defense is a factor that should not be dismissed in consideration of when the team feels these young men are ready to come up.

Agree?

Seems about right. I wasn't upset by Elias's decision to demote any of these guys, and in the first game at Norfolk they've shown they need to work on some things. Strong fielding wins games in the majors. The Orioles presently have solid defenders perfectly capable of handling the infield in the meantime. It's on them to improve. 

[sevastras]

1 hour ago, Frobby said:

Well, the one thing Hyde said during ST is that Holliday really hadn’t had any opportunities to start 4-6-3 DPs at game speed this spring.   He said that more than once, and not in the context of justifying why Holliday didn’t make the team, just remarks made in passing following games.  And sure enough, Holliday’s error yesterday came while initiating a DP.

I’m about done discussing this subject.  Literally every time Holliday has a good game at the plate, someone is going to revisit the decision to send him down, opine that he should be called up ASAP, etc.   I heard it with Rutschman, I heard it with Cowser, I heard it with Westburg, etc. etc.   It’s like Groundhog Day.  It gets really boring.   

Is it worse to discuss the decision to have him start at AAA or worse when people on here wanted to send Henderson back down last year?  
This would be a pretty boring message board if we all lived in an echo chamber of the same opinion. Of course, what ever my opinion is is the correct one and everyone who disagrees is a dolt.

[Too Tall]

Watched the game last night. First game for these guys out of Florida. Field and weather looked challenging compared to where they had been. Not making excuses and each team did make it look real sloppy but not going to certify anything in my head based on last night. If it continues - that's a different story. I don't view any as less ready based on last night - there just isn't room right now and more work at AAA is not going to hurt them or the organization.

At least they brought their hitting tools for the first night.